Benefits of Chamomile with Rebecca Luna

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Do you love the benefits of chamomile? I love chamomile! Yay Matricaria chamomilla! 

And as you’ll see, my guest today, Rebecca Luna, loves chamomile, too. We talked about chamomile tea, chamomile oil, chamomile glycerite, chamomile baths… 

We full-on fan-girled about chamomile’s gifts for babies, for harried parents, throughout menopause, and into elderhood. We also chatted about what it’s like running an herbal apothecary, something Rebecca’s been doing for almost 20 years.

I think herbal baths are a totally underutilized preparation… and Rebecca has shared a wonderful recipe for a chamomile lavender bath. If taking a little time out to let yourself breathe, relax, and be all-around nurtured sounds good to you, you do not want to miss this recipe! There’s a free, downloadable and printable recipe card available just for you, which you can find in the resources section below.

By the end of this episode, you’ll know:

► A great tactic to give a teething baby some relief with chamomile

► The type of fever chamomile can be especially supportive for

► How chamomile can modulate inflammation

► A fun way to explore the gifts of Roman chamomile

► Strategies Rebecca used to grow her business without compromising on the original vision and quality of products

► and so much more…

For those of you who don’t already know her, Rebecca Luna is an Herbalist and the proprietress of Rebecca’s Herbal Apothecary & Supply. This retail shop provides everything one needs to use and make botanical medicines. They have a production kitchen where they craft a line of herbal products right on site.

Rebecca has been steeped in herbalism since the early 1990s and is a graduate of the Rocky Mountain Center for Botanical Medicine. She has worked as a community herbalist, postpartum doula and botanical medicine-making teacher. She opened her apothecary in 2004 with the aim of connecting the community with botanical medicine and providing a thriving work environment for herbalists.

I’m beyond delighted to share our conversation with you today!

-- TIMESTAMPS -- for Benefits of Chamomile

• 01:12 - Introduction to Rebecca Luna
• 03:44 - How Rebecca found her way to herbalism
• 05:49 - The story behind Rebecca’s Apothecary
• 10:27 - Why Rebecca loves chamomile (Matricaria chamomilla)
• 15:55 - Chamomile Lavender Bath recipe
• 21:16 - Chamomile to modulate inflammation
• 22:44 - Chamomile infused oil
• 25:21 - Chamomile as a support through menopause
• 29:37 - What about Roman chamomile?
• 31:00 - Closing thoughts about chamomile
• 31:46 - The early days of Rebecca’s Apothecary
• 36:55 - Rosalee’s visit to Rebecca’s Apothecary
• 40:23 - Advice for scaling an herbal business
• 43:47 - Building herbal community
• 48:05 - How herbs instill hope
• 52:30 - Herbal tidbit

Get Your Free Recipe!

This is a simple preparation of a Chamomile and Lavender Herbal Bath. It has a myriad of uses including, but not limited to, reducing stress and irritability, encouraging a sound sleep, soothing inflammatory conditions, or just immersing in floral goodness. 

Ingredients:

• 1 cup dried Chamomile flowers (1.15oz net wt)
• 1 tbsp dried Lavender flowers (.1oz net wt)

Directions:

1. Place dried flowers in a heat safe large jar or pot. Boil 1/2 gallon - 1 gallon of water and pour over the Chamomile and Lavender mixture, then cover with a lid. This can sit and steep anywhere from 20 minutes to overnight. 
2. Strain the resulting tea/infusion into bathtub or foot bath. 
3. Add water to achieve the desired temperature.  
4. Immerse your body or feet and enjoy for as long as you'd like.

Connect with Rebecca

• Website | rebeccasherbs.com
• Instagram | @rebeccasapothecary
• Facebook | @RebeccasHerbs

Transcript of the 'Benefits of Chamomile with Rebecca Luna' Video

Rosalee de la Forêt:
Hello and welcome to the Herbs with Rosalee Podcast, a show exploring how herbs heal as
medicine, as food and through nature connection. I’m your host, Rosalee de la Forêt. I created
this Channel to share trusted herbal wisdom so that you can get the best results when
relying on herbs for your health. I love offering up practical knowledge to help you dive deeper
into the world of medicinal plants and seasonal living.

Each episode of the Herbs with Rosalee Podcast is shared on YouTube, as well as your favorite
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Rosalee de la Forêt:

Okay, grab your cup of tea and let’s dive in.

Do you love chamomile? I love chamomile and as you’ll see, my guest, Rebecca Luna, loves chamomile too. In fact, we just full on fangirled about chamomile throughout this entire episode. We talked about chamomile tea, chamomile oil, chamomile glycerite, as well as chamomile gifts for babies and throughout menopause. We also chatted about what it’s like running an herbal apothecary, something Rebecca’s been doing for almost 20 years. 

For those of you who don’t already know her, Rebecca Luna is an herbalist and a proprietress of Rebecca’s Herbal Apothecary & Supply. This retail shop provides everything one needs to use and make botanical medicines. They have a production kitchen where they craft a line of herbal products right on site.

Rebecca has been steeped in herbalism since the early 1990s and is a graduate of the Rocky Mountain Center for Botanical Medicine. She has worked as a community herbalist, post-partum doula and botanical medicine-making teacher. She opened her apothecary in 2004 with the aim of connecting the community with botanical medicine and providing a thriving work environment for herbalists.

Rebecca, I am so excited to have you here on the podcast. Thank you for being here.

Rebecca Luna:

You’re so welcome. Thank you for having me today.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Oh, it’s such a pleasure. I mentioned this already in the introduction, but I met you after this incredible experience of going to Red Rocks Colorado this year. I have to mention I saw Tori Amos there. I had gotten a couple hours of sleep that night and I had asked on my Facebook Page, “What should I do while I’m in the Denver area?” and I had so many people say, “You cannot miss Rebecca’s Apothecary.” I was like, “I’m not really going to Boulder,” and then another person said it, and another person said it, and another person said it. So, I ended up actually taking an Uber to go to Boulder just to go to the apothecary and I’m so glad I did. I got to meet you and it was just all so lovely. I’m just so glad to have you here. Thanks for saying yes.

Rebecca Luna:

I feel really honored and special that you took the time to come out and visit us. I have to say every time I hear Tori Amos now, I think of you.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I love that. That’s like my goal in life, so thank you. 

Rebecca Luna:

She’s fabulous! She’s so good.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I want to hear first—I actually don’t know your story at all and I would love to hear your story of becoming on the plant path.

Rebecca Luna:

It’s interesting. Thank you for asking. I tell people I was a welder before I was an herbalist, which is-

Rosalee de la Forêt:

This is the first time I’ve heard this. No one else has been a welder first. That has not been a pathway. 

Rebecca Luna:

I ended up—I was pregnant. I had this beautiful little baby. You can’t weld when you’re pregnant and I was trying to figure out what to do with my life. My brother, who I just adore, was living in Colorado. I was living in Washington, D.C. He said, “Why don’t you come out to Colorado?” They were getting ready to have their first baby. I was a single mom, sort of struggling. They said, “We can help you and you can help us.” I said, “What am I going to do in Colorado?” He said, “Well, there’s an herb school,” and I said, “What’s herb school?” It was that fluky, for sure. I knew garlic was good for you and I come from a very traditional Italian American household where food is medicine for sure, but it was a real fluke.

I remember the first day of school. This was the Rocky Mountain Center for Botanical Studies. Feather Jones made loose leaf tea which was the first time I saw that. I was just immediately drawn into it. She said, “Herbalists are outlaws.” I was like, “Ooh, that sounds like a good match.” I just felt really empowered, especially as a young and broke, single mom, and just really fell in love with it. That’s how I got into it. I went to herb school and then later became a teacher at the school. I taught at Bastyr University for a while. The real dream after going through herb school and practicing a little bit—I did some post-partum care—was the shop. The shop was really my dream.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Wow. The shop. You’ve created such a magical, special place with Rebecca’s Apothecary, one that is famous beyond Boulder, Colorado. I’m wondering why did you—what is it about the shop? Obviously, that spoke to you on a deep level. That was your dream. Do you have any insight as to the deeper goal? The deeper mission behind the shop?

Rebecca Luna:

Thank you for asking that. For me, herbalism was so empowering. It was amazing to see that I could get medicine just going out into my yard. That just blew my mind and was so, so profound for my spirit. The idea—part of the shop for me is very political in the way of social justice, of having everyone’s birthright being the knowledge to use the plants around you, to make that as accessible as possible to people to let them know it’s the simplest remedies that are the most profound. It should be accessible and so what a pleasure to be able to be a part of making that accessible to folks.

Also, I found it very hard to make a living as an herbalist straight out of school. Another thing was to be able to have a steady paycheck for herbalists as they get their feet going. Also, when you get people excited about the plants around them and using their plants, then they’re going to naturally be excited or interested in environmentalism. For me, this fulfilled all those, checked all those boxes. Then there’s a selfish side, which was that as a botanical medicine making teacher, I could never find everything I needed in one place, and now, I have everything I need in one place. I was getting ready for this and I was like, “Oh, I need chamomile!” and I could just go grab some off the shelf, so it’s very selfish. I have all my…

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I love all of those reasons. There’s a couple of things I just want to circle back to. One, I love that you’re a welder, and that just a fluke, you got into herbal school but how it just resonated with you so deeply. I think that it’s just very empowering because sometimes I interview people and I will always think that they’re the lucky ones. Their story begins when they were two. They were out in the yard playing with plantain. That’s the dream, right? That more and more of us have that experience? But sometimes we can feel like if I didn’t have that, then maybe herbalism. There’s a hurdle there or something. I love that you’re like, “No, I was a welder and then I just fell into this path.” I just think that’s beautiful. No matter where we come from, once the plants reach out to us, they’re there. I love that.

I love the social justice and the environmental aspect too because that was actually a big thing for me. I often joke I minored in social justice when I was in college because that was what I spent all of my stuff doing, which is activism. I was 20 and I just stand on the street corners and yell at people because I was angry. Why weren’t people paying attention? And all these injustices in the world. After a while, I just realized that is not—I’m just not really accomplishing what I want to accomplish with this tactic. Then by a fluke, I made it to a wilderness school and I watched people’s lives transform, including my own, by becoming connected to the place where we lived, by making medicine with the plants. I was like, “This is my in. This is a way to have an impact.” I appreciate that with the store, that that was part of that and giving back people’s birthright of plants as medicine.

Rebecca Luna:

I think you are creating so much access through your podcast here. It’s amazing. I was telling you before the show, I’ve gotten re-excited about things listening to you. I’m just so grateful for what you do.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Thanks, Rebecca. Now, I have more questions about the shop, but maybe, let’s dive into chamomile. I just can’t even wait because chamomile—I don’t think you know this is one of my very favorite plants. If you twisted my arm, most days I might say it’s my favorite although it is impossible to choose. I’m excited to talk about chamomile. I’m excited to hear what inspired you to choose chamomile out of all the plants out there. 

Rebecca Luna:

Anybody who works with me or knows me, she is my main ally herb. There are so many reasons, also that social justice, birthright thing. Chamomile, for me, is so accessible to so many people. Even people, family members who might think I’m a little wacky or out there being an herbalist and they don’t get it, they’ve heard of chamomile tea. Almost everyone has heard of chamomile tea or used it or had it in their life. I love the accessibility of it. We can talk really about the amount of uses of this plant, as you surely know, is just staggering. I planted chamomile one time, just once, never had to water it and it just flourishes. It’s so readily available. I love that, so that’s one of the main things.

I also felt like, when I came into herbalism, as I said I was a young, single mother, I always think chamomile was the other parent in the household. It really helped me raise that kid. Even just getting ready for this today, I’m having my chamomile tea to help keep me calm and centered. I could have a beautiful, strong medicine within 10 minutes just so readily available. I just think it’s such a mothering, grandmotherly—I just love this plant. We could go through all the things. I’ve got lists and lists. It was really hard to narrow it down what I love about it. I hope I’m not going on and on.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Absolutely not. This sense I had when you’re just talking about it’s so accessible, within 10 minutes you have this wonderful medicine. The image I had in my mind is it’s so different from you could walk to your medicine cabinet, pull out some pharmaceutical pills, over the counter pills and pop those. It’s such a different kind of medicine. This is like the epitome of what makes herbal medicine so great. Chamomile isn’t something you just throw back real quick. It’s something you get to smell. It’s something that brings a lot of physical, mental, emotional relief in a comforting way. Like you’ve mentioned that it’s mothering. It’s such a comfort and I love that. This is, again, epitome of herbal medicine that our herbs are beautiful every step of the process. They have so many gifts.

Rebecca Luna:

Yes, and I love that you said the steam. You make your tea and then if you just breathe it in. With chamomile, you like to brew it lidded to hold in the volatile oils, but also, let yourself enjoy that steam coming up. It’s going to be fabulous for your skin. Your whole mood invites you into that cup of tea. Even just having it. Even if you don’t brew it. You just have it in a little bag in sachets around and just crunching the bag of chamomile blossoms – that is medicine. It’s amazing. I’m repeating myself, but it’s so, so accessible. Getting ready for this, one of the things I remembered from my studies long ago, but I kept coming across was that it’s called the “plants’ physician.” If plants are having a hard time or they’re a little droopy—Maud Grieve talks about this in her A Modern Herbal. If you plant chamomile near a sad plant, it will help bring that plant to wellness.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I love that! I love it.

Rebecca Luna:

Come on. It’s so good.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I was just imagining the chamomile bringing us comfort, and through that comfort, joy, so just saying chamomile does that for all beings. Apparently, the plants too.

Rebecca Luna:

What an ally for children. I mean, it’s great for everyone. It’s great in menopause, but really, for children what a wonderful, wonderful plant. The recipe that I gave was chamomile bath, which I think is just—to me, it’s one of my favorite remedies with this plant. A long time ago, I heard that there’s a folk saying. I can’t remember where I heard this, but to give an infant their first bath in a bath infused with chamomile to reassure them that they were born into a good world. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

That’s beautiful. Let’s talk about this chamomile bath recipe. I was so thrilled that you chose this as your recipe and gifted it to us because I like to think of myself as famous for loving chamomile baths. It’s one of the ways that I work chamomile the most is as a bath. I just find it to be so comforting, so soothing for so many different reasons. One funny story I have about that is, one time in our Rooted Medicine Circle class, I was demonstrating hand baths. I used 2 cups of chamomile and steeped it, and then put it in a hand bath. I’m modeling this and showing people how to do it and I actually have my hand soaked in the water. Two cups of chamomile in a hand bath, I can tell you, is profoundly sedating and maybe not what you want when you’re in the middle of teaching. Thank goodness I had a co-teacher, Emily Han, who was able to take over because it was funny but not funny for me as a teacher. I really had to go to the couch. I felt like I was so tired I couldn’t even keep myself propped up anymore. So, you don’t need 2 cups for a hand bath unless you want that. Of course, unless you want that.

Let’s talk about your recipe and ways you enjoy or reasons why you would be like, “I need a chamomile bath.”

Rebecca Luna:

I have a story. I had a friend traveling with her toddler from Australia, which was rough. We were very young, early twenties. She came in and the baby, she was just not doing well. My friend was giving her every over the counter thing that she possibly could. She also came and immediately came to my house, which was over 8,000 feet up in the mountains. The one thing that started to help resolve was making a nice—I brought some sort of props just to show you. Here’s some chamomile. Maybe you take canning jars, my favorite way to do it. Because this is for home, I can use my hands. I’m going to fill the—is this okay showing you?

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Absolutely.

Rebecca Luna:

I’ll put a bunch of chamomile in a jar here. I like to add some lavender but maybe just a pinch. You’ll see in the recipe that it’s a little bit of lavender, it’s chamomile, because too much lavender is a little stimulating. You pour boiling water over this and lit it and let it sit. You want to make sure that it gets to room temperature because you certainly don’t want to put boiling water in a bath with anybody. It’s always good, for me, to put the resulting tea, pour it through a strainer into the bath, or you could pour it into a cloth and catch the herb. Maybe add some oatmeal in there and then tie the cloth off and you have this bundle to use. It’s really nice. Then you’ve got this tea poured in the bath, and then you add the bath water to make it to a comfortable temperature. When we put this little toddler in the bath, they just immediately could start relaxing and then letting their body heal. It’s that quiet, just being able to get in all those, all your cells and bathe in it. I don’t have a bathtub right now. I should have one in about two months.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

So chamomile bath is probably in your future.

Rebecca Luna:

It can reduce fever. We know fevers are good most of the time, but sometimes you really need to just cut it down so that that being can rest. It reduces that nervousness and the irritation. This kid had just been up and down--digestive upset, all that stuff. We can go through. What doesn’t it do, really? 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Yeah, what doesn’t it do? You mentioned fever and chamomile is one of my favorites. One indication for chamomile for me, even for adults, is a fever where someone feels really restless and irritable, has body aches and possibly a headache. You can really have a strong bath or a really strong tea of chamomile, go to bed and you’ll wake up feeling better. I’ve just seen that time and time again. That’s all of those indications. It’s not like, “We’re going to oppress your fever or try to artificially lower it.” It’s really supporting your body’s process when you’re just feeling whiny, irritable and you have a fever. You just don’t feel good and you want someone to take care of you. Chamomile will take care of you.

Rebecca Luna:

That’s so specific and great. Exactly, yes. Again, it covers all those bases. It does! Doesn’t it feel like the ancestors are coming and helping when you have chamomile? That’s how I feel.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Absolutely. You mentioned anti-inflammatory. I’d love to talk about that because I feel like chamomile is underrated as something that modulates inflammation.

Rebecca Luna:

It’s underrated all around.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

All around.

Rebecca Luna:

I consider it one of our best anti-inflammatories. It’s in our tummy tea blend with the meadowsweet sweet blossoms. It’s very anti-inflammatory. Here’s a good example of that. I apologize I keep going back to kids stuff. When I think about a teething child, their gums are inflamed. I like to take chamomile. Make a nice, strong chamomile tea and take very clean cloths, dip it in the tea and freeze the cloths, so then when they’re teething, they can chew on that cold cloth. The chamomile itself is so anti-inflammatory for those inflamed gums, also the cold is going to be anti-inflammatory. It helps reduce that irritation that the kid is having. Sometimes they have a non-productive fever. It can help reduce that. Also, they can get some digestive upset from the teething and it covers that base too. As a parent, you can drink the tea while you’re making it so that you are more patient with that child.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Again, I’m thinking what doesn’t chamomile do? 

Rebecca Luna:

I love it in an oil too, infusing it-

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I was going to ask you if you work with it in oil. That’s my new favorite. I mean,  new in the past couple of years but it’s a favorite of mine. It’s such a favorite. Tell me how you like to work with it.

Rebecca Luna:

Again, it’s just so giving! It just loves being in the oil! I usually infuse it in an organic olive oil that tends to be my favorite for the infused oils. It just gives of itself so well. It’s so easy to powder up. I put it in our sore muscle oil, the infused olive oil of the chamomile as a base. That mixed with infused ginger oil. In the ginger oil, I found with people who have that extreme jaw pain, the inflammatory, going back to that. They’re so tensed and they’re clenching their jaw all the time. This is something I feel safe on their face. It’s anti-inflammatory, calming them down. It just feels soft. What a nice oil to massage with before bed. It’s not stimulating. It’s also analgesic. I agree with you. It is so underrated. She is small but mighty, I tell you. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I often will rub it on before bed and it’s such a comforting smell and so lovely. Sometimes, specifically—just randomly, I’ll get restless legs. My legs are jumpy before bed and when that happens, I know that I can put chamomile. I often do chamomile and St. John’s wort. Obviously, for anyone listening, you need to look at things like your minerals, magnesium and everything, which I do, but sometimes there is still some restless there. The chamomile is so wonderful for rubbing that on my legs and then I can go to sleep just like that.

Rebecca Luna:

I love your pairing with the St. John’s.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

That was really just out of desperation, I think that that happened. What do I have that will work? And I just found when I put the both of them on, it’s really lovely.

Rebecca Luna:

Interesting. I love that you’re talking about this love of the infused oil. A lot of times when I infuse plants into oils, which is one of my favorite preparations, you don’t get the scent of the plant in the infused oil so much. You might add essential oil if you really want that aromatherapy bit, but boy, the chamomile is just there. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

That is so true. You mentioned it for menopause briefly and I’m curious about that.

Rebecca Luna:

With its anti-inflammatory, it’s great for menstrual pains, that sort of thing. I also think this is funny. I never read about chamomile for liver, but I think of it as a livery kind of herb because it does everything. I think of that bitterness and the yellow color. I think of it as something that helps support the liver while it’s processing hormones. I’m post-menopausal now. I’m a pretty even-keel person, but when that really started for me, perimenopause, the emotional side of that was very hard for me. I felt myself getting going from zero to 60 very fast. Chamomile was an old friend, and again, was supportive quickly. To put it in modern terms, it’s the friend you just text and they just show up and they’re there for you. You know what I mean? You don’t have to do emails and have someone schedule the date.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I love that.

Rebecca Luna:

I hope that makes sense.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

It does, chamomile being a very loyal friend who’s got your back right away.

Rebecca Luna:

With that steam, it would encourage me to breathe it in.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Beautiful. Now, I feel like you’re my chamomile pal because you love chamomile the way I love chamomile. Another favorite way that I have been working with it lately is glycerites. I used to not like glycerites at all and now I’m more into them. Chamomile works really lovely as a glycerite. Sometimes I’ll combine it for a little added oomph. It’s a tincture and the glycerite, tincture chamomile or the glycerite and chamomile, mix them half and half. I take that traveling now. I don’t even leave home without it. Like we’ve been talking about, everything chamomile is great for. What happens when you travel? Sometimes your digestion could be a little bit off. Sometimes—with me, all the time—nervousness and anxiety can happen while traveling. Having being in a different time zone, having trouble sleeping can be a problem. Chamomile is like that friend that will text you right back with me. I’m just curious if you work with it as a tincture or a glycerite.  

Rebecca Luna:

I’m now, yet again, inspired by you. No, I haven’t done that. There’s a local company, WishGarden, here that’s a fabulous company. She makes chamomile glycerite. I haven’t made glycerites in 20 years or something. I don’t know why I haven’t dabbled there, but it sounds wonderful, and also more easily accessible than just straight tincture straight in. I’m inspired.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I think that somehow the tinctures started bothering me. This year’s alcohol, I just wasn’t getting along with it. I feel like I ignored glycerites for 20 years. For certain plants, they’re just really wonderful. I had a couple of people in a row come and talk about calamus this year, and I started taking calamus glycerite when needed. I’ve just been into glycerites, but that’s a whole other tangential gentle thing. For me, chamomile just comes up as a tea so much. I love it as a tea. I love that even when I’m traveling if I didn’t bring chamomile tea with me, I can just go to a health food store and get traditional medicinals. They have great tea bags and get chamomile. You could just walk into a café probably anywhere and get a chamomile tea, so I love that accessibility of it as well. Couldn’t love the tea more and so it’s been a fun thing to play around with these other ways of working with chamomile.

Rebecca Luna:

Have you worked with the Roman chamomile for benches?

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I haven’t done anything with Roman chamomile. I would say that’s one of the most common questions I get. People say, “How is this different or the same from Roman chamomile?” I’m always like, “I don’t really know.” I know that they’re similar but different. If you have anything to say about that, that would be great.

Rebecca Luna:

I don’t really use the Roman chamomile for ingesting or topically, but I got super into—my boy, who is now grown, but when my grown son was a kid, I planted a chamomile bench. The Roman chamomile tends to do better, to my understanding. When trod upon and sat upon, then the German chamomile will do. If we’re having a hard time, go sit on the chamomile bench.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Interesting! It’s lovely too.

Rebecca Luna:

A very pleasant time-out. I’ll all go sit on the chamomile bench. The more it’s trod upon, the more it grows. Also, the release of that scent when it’s walked upon, I think it’s a lovely medicine. I don’t know how I got off on that tangent, but I do-

Rosalee de la Forêt:

That inspires me now to grow some Roman chamomile. It’s about time I learn. Everyone asks, so maybe it’s time.

Rebecca Luna:

That’s the thing.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Is there anything else you’d like to add about chamomile?

Rebecca Luna:

I was thinking one of my big wins with it. There’s another real special one. I love the oil for cradle cap. The chamomile infused olive oil for cradle cap, for nightmares and convulsions, that sort of thing. I’m sure I’m going to get off this podcast. Maybe I’ll call you, “…and this, and this, and this!”

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I hope you do just so we can fangirl over chamomile some more.

Rebecca Luna:

Yes, let’s fangirl over chamomile. I love the opportunity to talk about it and thank you for listening to me go on and on and on.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

It was really fun for me too. I’m really excited to ask you more questions about your shop if you’ll allow it.

Rebecca Luna:

Yeah!

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I’m thinking here’s Rebecca. You’ve gone to herb school. You’ve been teaching. You’re a medicine maker, teaching in Colorado, teaching in Bastyr, and then you’re like, “But my dream is to open a shop.” What is that first shop? I have a couple of questions: 1. did you have any idea what you’re getting into at that point? 2. What did your shop first look like? I see it now, but I imagine it probably didn’t look the way it does now with all these different employees, everything about it. I’m just curious about that. Did you know what you’re getting into? And what did that first shop look like?

Rebecca Luna:

These are great questions. I did not at all. I remember right before it opened, sort of hesitating because I know my whole life was going to change. I knew it was going to be a lot of work. I did not know and it took me seven years to open, just full disclosure of this is what I want to do, starting to save, starting to plan. I opened in the same building in a spot to next to—actually, the room I’m sitting in right now was the original herb shop. It was about the third of the size that it is now. Boy, I’m having a flood of memories of things that were different. A lot of the furniture was stuff I found on the side of the road. We handwrote every single label in the store, which was crazy. First, it was just me and one other person or me and two other. I’m very small scale, but as we got—even the first couple of years, I had interviewed these incredibly brilliant herbalists. My first question is, “How’s your handwriting?” The other random thought that I haven’t thought about in years that just came up was I was so concerned about things like—you know when you buy something, it has a barcode on it and you have to scrape the barcode off? In my shop, we’re not doing that. We’re going to tape the barcode on, leaving the plastic behind it, and we’re going to fold the edges of the tape so people can just—I mean, just insanity.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I totally appreciate that you wanted to do that. I can totally appreciate how there’s that whole you can spend 90% of your time doing the 10% that may not matter as much.

Rebecca Luna:

Yes, yes.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

So, you have your store. I remember. I got to tour the shop so I know where you’re sitting right now. You started small and then you grew. How has that been? I’m asking for myself in some ways because I’ve been growing my own business. It’s freaking hard. I’ll just say it. There is no blueprint for me, to take on more amazing people on your team. Growing is like you have to do a lot of self-growth in order to grow your business, I think. I’m curious how that was for you. You resonate with that?

Rebecca Luna:

I resonate. It’s a little mind blowing how I’ve learned patience. I’ve learned some very, very big life lessons. What I do want to say is starting small was one of the best things I did. My brother was incredibly helpful for me when I started in saying that—he said, “Rebecca, write down every single thing that you are going to need to open this business, down to the nail in the wall, for the picture on the wall. Every single, solitary thing and then double it. That’s what you need.” He was right because there were so many things that I didn’t think about. Also, you are going to make mistakes. I made a ton of mistakes. I would so much rather make a $100 mistake than a $1,000 mistake. I think that is really a good thing about starting small. Sometimes I look and I see a lot of businesses that have gotten a lot bigger than me, a lot faster. Sometimes I feel bad about myself, like what’s wrong with me? Why am I poky about this? It’s all my nervous system can handle going at the pace that I—we’re almost at 20 years now and we’re still in the same store.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Beautiful, beautiful store that has expanded. That was one thing. My experience of the shop is that I was—okay, so again, I’ve had a couple hours of sleep. I’ve just seen the most amazing concert of my life where Tori played my request, huge emotional experience. As you mentioned, there was a little bit of elevation going on for me. I felt like I was in this dream world. I was just like not entirely there. I got to Boulder. I went to breakfast. I’m carrying all of my luggage with me. I have my roller bag and a backpack on, walking through the streets of Boulder and I roll up on Rebecca’s Apothecary. I’m just there with my phone and maps. I’m looking for it. It was easy for me to know that I’ve made it to the right place because out in front was all these beautiful herbs growing. I just love that so much. We’re in an urban setting 100%. There’s a lot of cement everywhere, and yet here we are at the apothecary with their herbs in front. I was immediately like, “Yes, okay!” I walk in the shop and you have such a great curated experience there of both these incredible products that are made in-house and then things that you have curated from other places.

I know I talked to one of your employees, Heather, about this. The tinctures was all my favorite tinctures from companies all over the United States. It was interesting because often times when you go to Whole Foods or something, there’s this company’s tincture line and this company’s tincture line, but these were handpicked. They were my favorite ones. They’re the famous ones--David Winston’s Grief Relief. You had Ginger Webb’s Texas Medicinals there. You had these incredibly beautiful products handmade in-house. I got to go in the back and get the tour and everything.

Something that just really struck me is that you have these incredibly high-quality products made in-house, but you’ve scaled it. I was wondering how that was. I got to see the herbs brewing and see some of the machinery. Again, I’m just imagining. I’m sure it didn’t start out like this. There were three people in the back. They were putting everything together very professionally, but there was still heart in it. I think that’s what it is, Rebecca. There is just so much heart. You could feel the plants in those products. It wasn’t like an assembly line where you’re just like brrr, brrr, brrr. I’m just curious about that. How has that been to know that you wanted to create incredible medicine, have that for the shop and then scale that too?

Rebecca Luna:

Before I talk, I do want to say that the tinctures and who’s in here, that is because of Heather Powell. She is the one who has curated that whole—all of the tinctures. I get no credit for that other than loving Heather and being so grateful that she’s here, but that is 100% hers.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I was so impressed. I talked to Heather about it too because it really was my favorite tinctures from across the US were there. The ones I didn’t know, I was like I need to know these ones because if they’re sitting with all these other great ones, then I need to know the other ones. 

Rebecca Luna:

I’m not answering your question right away, but I will say one of the most important things and I think something that has led to the success of the shop is surrounding yourself with really skilled people because there’s no way you can do it all. Amber Graziano orders our herbs and she’s just so good. She’s so good at what she does. I think a lot of this is cultivating relationships with people because there’s no way I could do all of this. In the early days, yeah, I did. I was in the back making stuff, writing the labels, trying to do the books and working with the one customer a day I had.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I remember those days too.

Rebecca Luna:

I think, again, it is working with people who—maybe making a mission. I worked with a friend of mine who is a business coach who help me write mission statements for each job and that helps me figure out what do I want out of this job, and that ties in with the production side of things because part of the mission for that is we’re putting love into this. We care about this. It’s a balance between—I loved that you say that I’ve scaled up. I just feel like we’re so small.  

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I’m thinking my kitchen counter vs. your store is my reference.

Rebecca Luna:

We still want to be able to crunch it and be able to smell it. There has been a lot of talk about sourcing, especially the tea making, that sort of thing. Honestly, a lot of that is for health and safety because when we’re sitting there doing these batches, that is not healthy for the people doing that. Right next to me is—I’m going to spare you and not turn the computer—is a big cement mixer. It’s a food grade cement mixer. They’ve named it “Bubba” and that’s what we are now mixing our teas with to keep us healthier. I’m so long-winded, Rosalee. You’re so patient with my answer, but I think the scaling is just everything is one step at a time and not letting people push you when you’re not comfortable. We have Instagram. The woman who does it is great. I can’t look at Instagram. It makes me feel competitive and “Oh, they’re doing that. I should be doing that.” It’s not good for me, so I don’t go on there at all. Just maintaining a little bit blinders on, I think has helped me maintain this the way I want my control freaky side wants it to be.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I can appreciate that. You’ve created such a beautiful space. My last question for you, so far about the shop, is the other sense that I got about the shop is it’s so aesthetically beautiful. Everything is curated so well, such high-quality products both made in-house and curated from afar. The other sense is this community because, again, I just asked people on Facebook where should I go and there were so many people who responded Rebecca’s Apothecary – people who lived around in the area, people who didn’t live in the area. I’m curious. You said one of your missions for starting your goals, for starting with this social justice, environmental thing, which to me, involves community. I’m just wondering what that has been like to have a community space and perhaps what’s that been like because you’re not just available in Boulder, but also available online, too. What has that been like to cultivate these communities? 

Rebecca Luna:

Thank you for all these questions. They make me feel so good. It’s been a tremendous honor. It’s been—we talked about this is real growth thing. It has taught me a lot about how to interact with people. I always try and think if someone is having a hard day coming in, I try and think of maybe a family member I have or have had who tends to be difficult in stores and just think about, “But I love that person.” You may not know what’s going on in there. You don’t know what’s going on in other people’s lives or what’s happening there.

One of my most favorite things about the shop is having this toy corner. Some of these toys—my son who is 31 years old right now, some of his toys are in the corner. Having kids come in, if they can have this pleasant experience in the herb shop, then again, herbalism is normal for them. That’s their birthright. “We used to go to the tea store. I’d have chamomile.” Getting to watch them grow up or watching people grow up, the passing of their family members, just being able to be witness to that has been probably one of the biggest honors of my life. I have to tell you some of these totally off subject, but when you’re talking about the herbs out front, every year, chamomile now sprouts up from the cracks in the sidewalk out front.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I love that. I love that so much. Wonderful. You’ve really created such a special place. I am so glad that people clued me in so that I got to witness it in person. As I mentioned, I had all my luggage with me when I was there. My other memory is that I remember I bought a kid’s game and kid’s book for the little ones in my life. I bought flower and tea towels that were so beautiful. I remember being sad like I’m not checking anything, so I can’t bring liquids, etc. and then it was like, but I can get these things online. So, if anybody is thinking, “I want to experience Rebecca’s Apothecary,” but aren’t able to make it to Boulder, Colorado anytime soon, you are online. It’s such a beautiful, special place. Hats off to you. It’s people like you that give me so much inspiration and hope in the herbal world because you’re out there following your dreams, following your heart, creating these beautiful spaces, empowering people, giving people jobs in a really cool way. So many things to love, Rebecca.

Rebecca Luna:

I think we’re in a mutual admiration society, my new chamomile sister. I just adore you and I’m really, really pleased to be—I’ve been so looking forward to this. It felt fun. I’ve been re-inspired with all these things listening to your podcast and I’m like why am I not drinking pine needle tea? I’ve lived… I’m amid the pines, so thank you.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Before you go, I have one last question for you and that question is, how do herbs instill hope in you?

Rebecca Luna:

This has been an interesting thing. As I said, I’m living in the middle of the woods right now and I have rediscovered walking through the woods and being able to be there. It’s now been eight months I’m up there and being able to just really slow down, walk and enjoy. It has taken me about this length of time to remember my beginning stages as an herbalist to like, “I’m going to make granadilla honey.” It instills hope in me because it continually reawakes me. It continually surprises me. It continually comforts me and it continually holds me up.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I really resonate with that. I love that walk in the woods because that’s something I do pretty much daily and that is something just being out there with the plant friends. I have felt a sense of being held there both on a practical sense. I can see the elder bush and know there’s my medicine and fill that practical sense, but then just the sense of the forest and all those trees, the comfort they bring like chamomile.

Rebecca Luna:

Maybe we could take a walk together one day. I would love that.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Let’s do it at my elevation though, not yours. 

Rebecca Luna:

My brother is out on Orcas, so I’ll come visit.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Perfect. Perfect. That’s definitely more of my elevation, which for those who don’t know is sea level. Thank you so much for being on the show. It’s just such a delight to connect with you and to connect with chamomile and hear about the shop. This has just been wonderful. Thank you so much, Rebecca.

Rebecca Luna:

You’re so welcome and thank you so much. What a pleasure. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Thanks for being here. Don’t forget to download your beautifully illustrated recipe card above this transcript. Also sign up for my weekly newsletter, which is the best way to stay in touch with me. The best way to check out Rebecca’s offerings and her amazing apothecary is at the website, rebeccasherbs.com. 

If you’d like more herbal episodes to come your way, then one of the best ways to support this podcast is by subscribing on YouTube or your favorite podcast app. I’d also love to hear your comments about this episode. What’s your biggest takeaway?

Okay, you’ve lasted to the very end of this show which means you get a gold star and this herbal tidbit:

Honestly, I was scratching my head just a bit for this herbal tidbit because this isn’t the first time chamomile has made an appearance on this show. We’ve had brilliant interviews with Ann Armbrecht about the sustainability of herbs and chamomile, an incredible bitters recipe with my friend, Leslie Lekos. I’ve also done two solo shows about chamomile too. I’m not complaining. We can never have too much chamomile. In fact, I hope more guests choose chamomile in the future, but if after this episode, you’re wishing you had more chamomile in your life, we’ve got you covered with those other episodes.

That brings me back to my issue of trying to find an herbal tidbit for something I’ve done a few herbal tidbits about. I was thinking about this episode and I got to wondering has anyone ever looked at chamomile’s ability to help with adjusting to a high altitude? Because I swear that was no joke when I was visiting Rebecca’s Apothecary. It was a big adjustment for me. So, I looked into it and I found some hints on it, but for the most part, chamomile is recommended as kind of an adjunct therapy. Something to help with headaches or anxiety, both of which can happen when there’s a sudden change in altitude, but I’ll take it. I think this must confirm that chamomile really does do everything. 

Finally, a big round of thanks to the people all over the world who make this podcast happen week to week. Nicole Paull is the Project Manager who oversees the whole operation from guest outreach, to writing show notes, to actually uploading each episode and so many other things I don’t even know. She really holds this whole thing together.

Francesca is our fabulous video and audio editor. She not only makes listening more pleasant. She also adds beauty to the YouTube videos with plant images and video overlays. Tatiana Rusakova is the botanical illustrator who creates gorgeous plant and recipe illustrations for us. I love them. I know that you do too. Kristy edits the recipe cards and then Jenny creates them as well as the thumbnail images for YouTube. Michele is the tech wizard behind the scenes and Karin is our Student Services Coordinator and Customer Support. For those of you who like to read along, Jennifer is who creates the transcripts each week. Xavier, my handsome French husband, is the cameraman and website IT guy. It takes an herbal village to make it all happen including you.