Benefits of Evening Primrose with Ginger Webb

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There’s so much to love about the benefits of evening primrose (Oenothera spp.)! In this episode, you’ll get to listen in as I discuss the many gifts of this beautiful plant with herbalist and teacher, Ginger Webb.

As you’ll see, evening primrose is not only swoon-worthy, but it’s abundant. Almost everybody has an evening primrose that grows in their region. And the various species are similar enough in their medicinal properties that they’re essentially interchangeable.

As a listener, you’ll also have access to Ginger’s Primrose Bliss tea blend, which may just become a treasured part of your evening relax-and-unwind routine.

By the end of this episode, you’ll know:

► Which comes first, harvesting and making medicine or stewarding – and why?

► What taste signals that an herb may be a nervine (an herb for the nervous system)?

► Why evening primrose can be an ally for resting in a go-go-go culture

► Why relying on plants’ common names can be dangerous (literally)

For those of you who aren’t already familiar with her, Ginger Webb has been practicing herbalism in and around Austin, Texas, for over 25 years. Trained by Michael Moore at the Southwest School of Botanical Medicine, Ginger carries on Michael's tradition of bioregional, populist herbalism, adding her own perspectives and working most closely with the plants of central Texas. She supplies small batch, lovingly-made herbal medicine to her clients and community through her company Texas Medicinals, and teaches herbalism, (including a 200-hour foundational program and a shorter clinical program) as the primary teacher at Sacred Journey School of Herbalism. Ginger currently lives on 6 acres in the Texas Hill Country, and enjoys regular visits from her 21 year old child, Chia, and Chia's French bulldog, Ham.

I’m thrilled to share our conversation with you today!

-- TIMESTAMPS --

• 00:00 - Introduction
• 01:13 - Introduction to Ginger Webb
• 03:52 - How Ginger found her herbal path
• 06:05 - Ginger’s approach to herbalism
• 09:57 - Why Ginger chose evening primrose (Oenothera spp.) as a focus for this conversation
• 13:01 - How Ginger loves to work with evening primrose
• 14:25 - Evening primrose memories
• 15:53 - Who can benefit from working with evening primrose?
• 22:56 - Ginger’s Primrose Bliss tea blend
• 25:41 - Identifying evening primrose
• 27:18 - Evening primrose for the digestive system and depressed moods
• 29:40 - Closing thoughts about evening primrose
• 32:31 - Ginger’s plant projects and programs
• 38:38 - How Ginger likes to give back to the plants

Get Your Free Recipe!

A wonderful, soft, aromatic tea blend, formulated to calm the nervous system and help you feel emotionally safe.

Ingredients:

• 3 teaspoons dried evening primrose leaf & flower
• 2 teaspoons dried oatstraw (organic)
• 1 teaspoon dried rose petals (organic)

Directions:

1. When you are ready to make the blend, simply use a teaspoon and measure out the quantities into a small bowl. Mix them together, and place them in your teapot, or in a pint mason jar.
   
   
2. Boil your water, pour over the herbs, cover and let steep for 20-30 minutes.
   
   
3. Strain and enjoy to feel calm and nourished.  
   
   

Connect with Ginger

• Ginger’s website | GingerWebb.com
• Instagram | @sacredjourneyherbalism
• Instagram | @texasmedicinals
• Facebook | @sacredjourneyschoolofherbalism
• YouTube | @GingerWebb

Transcript of the Benefits of Evening Primrose with Ginger Webb Video

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Hello and welcome to the Herbs with Rosalee podcast, a show exploring how herbs heal as medicine, as food, and through nature connection. I'm your host, Rosalee de la Forêt. I created this channel to share trusted herbal wisdom so that you can get the best results when relying on herbs for your health. I love offering up practical knowledge to help you dive deeper into the world of medicinal plants and seasonal living. Each episode of the Herbs with Rosalee podcast is shared on YouTube, as well as your favorite podcast app. Also, to get my best herbal tips as well as fun bonuses, be sure to sign up for my weekly herbal newsletter at the bottom of this page. Okay, grab your cup of tea and let's dive in.

It was such a pleasure to spend time with Ginger Webb and experience her absolute love of the plants. I also love that she chose evening primrose, an herb that is so deeply special to her. Even if you don't have this particular species that grows near you, chances are you'll have some type of evening primrose nearby. As you'll see, this is a swoon-worthy plant that is a delight to get to know.

For those of you who don't already know Ginger, she's been practicing herbalism in and around Austin, Texas for over 25 years. Trained by Michael Moore at the Southwest School of Botanical Medicine, Ginger carries on Michael's tradition of bioregional, populist herbalism, adding her own perspectives and working most closely with the plants of Central Texas. She supplies small batch, lovingly-made herbal medicine to her clients and community through her company, Texas Medicinals and teaches herbalism, including a 200-hour foundational program and a shorter clinical program as the primary teacher at Sacred Journey School of Herbalism. Ginger currently lives on six acres in the Texas Hill Country and enjoys regular visits from her 21-year-old child, Chia, and Chia's French bulldog, Ham. Welcome to the show, Ginger.

Ginger Webb:

Thank you, Rosalee. Thanks for having me.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

It was such a pleasure, and I just love your bio and how much honor and respect you give to Michael. That's just a beautiful thing to honor-

Ginger Webb:

Michael Moore. So many of us owe him so much. He was such a presence, and the fact that he also wrote books is so help... It reminds me all the time that I need to be writing a book because I feel like we're able to carry on his legacy so well because he wrote these amazing books. I feel really honored to have been able to study with him, really grateful.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Yeah, I feel a little... I did study with him long distance, which is not the same thing. Then of course, I pored over his books for many decades now. I'm a little jealous that you got that opportunity, but also grateful that you did and that you're not only passing on his legacy and all that he gave us, but adding to it through your many years of your own plant path and explorations. But, that's where I'd like to start actually. I know that you studied with Michael Moore, but how else did you find your way onto the plant path?

Ginger Webb:

Well, before Michael... Michael was kind of the culmination in a lot of ways, studying with Michael. I came to herbalism through the environmental movement. It was while trying to figure out, kind of brainstorm, "How on earth do you get people to care about the planet?" I realized that people need to be able to feel connected to the planet, need to feel connected to nature. I really thought about myself and how... There I was working at a desk again and what did I need in order to feel connected to nature. As I was thinking about all this and mulling it over, I kind of stumbled upon herbalism and I just thought, "Oh my gosh, that's amazing. I want to do that."

My joke of course is always, "It was right at the Saturn return and my Saturn returned and my whole life blew up and the only thing left was herbalism. So, I just ran with it." Working at the American Botanical Council, I was introduced to plant researchers and herbalists, and it was the herbalists that I was definitely more attracted to in terms of where my interests lay. Especially Michael, just being... Here I am in Texas and his focus was on the Southwestern plants of the United States. His books are so funny. So, I figured out, "Oh, I better go study with him sooner than later." So, that's what I did.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I love that. We kind of had a similar entryway, too, in that I also was brought in, in part through the environmental movement and my feelings of anger/desperation/cynicism that were not getting me anywhere. That was just not a good stew, spending a lot of time trying to force people's attention to care and that wasn't working. But, as my love of the plants and the landscape grew and I watched my fellow students have that same kind of transformation about it wasn't just about this kind of abstract idea anymore, but it was very much rooted in place and lands. That was a big like, "Oh, this is the way, this is the way."

Ginger Webb:

Yeah and I think that a lot of times I want to... Health of course plays a big part in it. Obviously, herbalism is so much about human health, as well. But my focus has always been the whole thing about we're stewards of the earth first and medicine makers second. We have to steward the plants. I teach that to my students, too. "We steward them first and then if we're able to harvest them and work with them as medicine then we do." But, our primary focus is really on the health of the earth and the health of the populations and falling in love with the plants, really. It's just like we go out in the field and we squeal when we find cute little flowers. If that's all they do with plants, I'm thrilled.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I love it. In my mind, I'm in envisioning, it's like there's all these different ways to be an herbalist. And, I'm not here to say one way is right or wrong, but just for me, being outside and squealing over the plants and being a steward and tending them is way more exciting than the supplement aisle. Which again, it's not like I don't buy supplements or even herbs in the supplement aisle, but if I have my choice that other way of being with the plants and the flowers and tending, it's just so much more life enriching and so much more impactful overall than buying a bottle.

Ginger Webb:

Yeah and that's why also in my foundational course, every year I add more and more botany. Especially with what I've heard is that at the university level, botany is being taught less and less. My intention is to, "Well, let's do some grassroots learning of it here." So, we actually do keying out of plants in the foundational program. It's like, "Now let's learn the plant parts. Let's learn how to identify them. Let's learn all of that." Without going super duper overboard into using the big old thick... What's it called, a key? We don't use the huge key because it's a little cumbersome, it's a little too much. But, we use some smaller keys, and I teach them all the botany so that they'll be empowered to being able to, if they're using a plant app, they can actually determine, "Hey, I think that answer's wrong, and I know why." I always tell people, "Somebody had to write that app, so somebody needs to know the botany." Let it be us.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I just treasure my memories of being... I was the person who didn't know any plants when I started. So, I went from the wall of green to finding new, getting more intimately familiar with plants and finding new friends. So, I love that that transformation is happening with your foundational group too because that's... To watch that every year with students is just, oh, what a blessing.

Ginger Webb:

Yeah, completely. It's that shift that happens with them every year.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Every year, nice. Well, I'm going to be honest, Ginger. I wasn't expecting you to do ginger when you chose your herb. I wasn't expecting that. But, I really was not expecting evening primrose. I am so delighted that you chose this plant because I think it's a plant that so many people are familiar with in a bottle, like evening primrose oil as a supplement. But, if that is all you know about evening primrose, wow, there's just so much to that you're missing out on. I'm just so excited that you're going to talk about this one. Especially, it's been really fun working with this pink ones, the botanical illustrations, the one that's local to you. If people know me at all, they know I love pink. It's been so fun being immersed in that and thinking about this for the conversation. So, let me begin by asking, "Why did you choose evening primrose?"

Ginger Webb:

Well, I really wanted to choose an herb that grows locally here in Central Texas where I live. Then also, one that's kind of swoon-worthy. We have lots of medicinal plants that grow here, but this one… I just swoon. It's makes me swoon.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I think that's what I was trying to say. It makes me swoon. I've been swooning over evening primrose ever since you mentioned it.

Ginger Webb:

Most people know about evening primrose because they've heard of using the oil. So, that's not an infused oil that's an expressed oil. I believe it's like they take the seeds, this happens in factory, or they express the seeds to get the oil, and the oil is high in essential fatty acid. That's all wonderful, but that's beyond kind of my scope of use. I definitely don't... I'm not going to be talking about the seed oil use. What I'm talking about today is the leaf and flower use. Michael Moore talked about using the roots, as well. I think the first time I used it I did tincture the whole plant, but nowadays I just don't bother. I just tincture the leaves and flowers. Mostly because I wasn't quite sure if I had a super duper abundant crop this year in my new garden here out in the Hill Country. It's like, "I don't want to pull up the roots if it's actually a perennial." I wasn't exactly sure. I was like, "Is this a perennial or a biennial? What is it?"

Our main local species, which is Oenothera speciosa, which is the pink evening primrose. It actually spreads by rhizome. So, I could pull some of it up and harvest the whole plant. But again, I don't need to, so I just stick with the above ground parts, the leaves and flowers. What I found is that, so many different preparations are just lovely, lovely, lovely with this plant. I love to dry it for tea. I got really lucky this year. Again, like I said, it just kept... It's actually growing right now. I could go do a whole new harvest of it right now in November, which is crazy. It's not flowering a lot, but it's flowering a little bit, but there's lots of foliage.

So, I dry it for tea. I also tincture it straight up in 95% alcohol. I made a glycerite this year with it, fresh plant. I like to make elixirs with a lot of plants, as well. The elixir I made with the evening primrose was a combination of evening primrose and rose in brandy with a little bit of honey. To me, I feel like evening primrose and rose go together really, really well. But, it's been pointed out to me that I use rose all the time anyway. I think evening primrose really has become one of my big allies, my plant allies. It took me years to kind of fall into, "Okay, what are my plant allies?" Then, I would say evening primrose definitely has become one of them pretty quickly.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Beyond being a plant ally, what specific reasons do you reach for evening primrose for?

Ginger Webb:

It's so relaxing. I feel like it's soft. It has this softness and… So on some level it's got a sweetness. But, usually the first... I went down to the garden today to taste it again fresh, just to kind of refresh my memory, and it just is so soft. But, it also has this... Kiva Rose would say... She calls it a "peppery taste." It's a little bit strong, a little pungency to it. But then, what I find at the end is it's got this acrid impression at the end and the acrid part, that's what we would define as that little tick in the back of your throat. That identifies for me, "Ah, this is a nervine," and that's really where I draw... That's one of the main things that I use evening primrose for is as a nervine.

The tea blend that I sent you was... What is this, evening primrose, oat straw, and rose. So, it's just happy, super happy nervine tea. People need nervines quite a bit. I feel like I combine it often with milky oat tops, fresh milky oat tops tincture with rose tincture. We've got a lot of blue vervain that grows here. So, I'll combine all those different things, different ways to use it as a nervine. Of course, I love that it's local, and I have access to it.

I have a couple funny stories, which one, my friend Caroline Riley at Whole Life Learning Center, she's an herbalist, and she has it growing and there's lots of school children there. She says when she needs them to chill out, she just has them eat the evening primrose leaves and flowers.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I love that.

Ginger Webb:

"Go eat those pink ones." Then, I was teaching it to my students one day at the American Botanical Council, and the species they have growing there is one of the yellow ones. I think it's a Oenothera biennis. I don't know the common name, but it's the big, big, big one. Some of my students just melted. It just made them melt into relaxation. If I had to pick apart how it's a nervine, it seems to really have an effect on the musculature, really just calming to the musculature, easing tightness, and stuff like that. What do we call that, relaxing to the musculature?

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Antispasmodic?

Ginger Webb:

Yeah, antispasmodic and I was thinking about the way Michael talks about constitutions and how one very common constitutional type is what he would call crispy critter or somebody who just runs on adrenaline. And how evening primrose can help with all the different aspects of our constitutional biology, our constitutional physiology that are diminished by adrenaline stress. So, evening primrose will support the nervous system and calm the musculature. Evening primrose will support digestion, which is a huge one, too. I want to talk about that in a minute. It'll support reproductive health.

Actually, I don't use it for lung things, but actually kind of reviewing some of the information in preparation for this podcast, I was reminded that it actually has a really healing effect on the lungs and can be really great for working with in terms of helping somebody with who has a history of asthma, for instance. Which makes sense because it's so nourishing to the tissue in general with that sweetness. It just feels like from Michael's idea of the adrenaline stress type person, that it nourishes all the areas that are kind of forgotten about as you're running from the saber tooth tiger all day long.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

This morning I had that kind of experience. There was no saber tooth tiger involved, but I was just running from thing to thing, and it was just one of those days. Nothing's horrible, but I just had woken up on the wrong side of the bed, and I was cranky and things weren't going the way I wanted them to go. I was kind of like, "Aargh." Then, I remembered the elixir that you sent me, which I've been taking every day since I received it. I was like, "Oh, now's the time for that." I've just been taking it before because it was yummy and fun. But I was like, "Now, I need it." I took it and it was just... I love that when you hit the right elixir tincture in that moment that you need that calmness and support to come in. It was just that feeling where I was like, my shoulders just, I was like, "Ahhh." I just felt like I was grounded and I was able to see clearly and the world around me was not as upsetting as I was trying to make it to be in my head.

Ginger Webb:

The flowering plant is so beautiful. The yellow evening primroses are beautiful, but the pink one is just like, "Are you kidding me? This beautiful pink flower. Are you kidding me?" Around here, it grows in mats. A lot of the evening primroses, the yellow ones, some of them can be very, very large. But the pink evening primrose, I don't know, maybe it's usually about a foot, well, it can be shorter, but maximum is a foot tall. But, you'll have stretches of them. You might see them along the highways, for instance. In my garden, it's just actually literally taking over, which I'm just like, "Go for it. Go ahead, take over. You're fine. Take as much space as you want."

But they're so beautiful. I just feel like that's part of the... When I take the medicine, I think about the plant immediately, and I think about that flower. It's just really, really lovely. It's very feminine, and I don't really... Well with gender spectrum, I try to translate that into our new understanding of the gender spectrum. So, I think, although I didn't study Chinese Medicine at all, I haven't studied it at all. I would say it definitely has more of a yin energy, a very much more moistening, calming, relaxing. Even its association with evening, which I've tried to see the pattern to see whether it really blooms just in the evening and it doesn't around here.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Oh really, I was going to ask…

Ginger Webb:

It's blooming today in November outside, right now. So, it does its own thing. But, when you see it in the evening, it shimmers.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Here they very much open in the evening. It's such a beautiful thing because it is such a delicate flower. So, to watch it first open in the evening and it blooms all night and then in the sun the next day, it wilts pretty quickly. Past mid-morning you don't really see evening primrose flowers anymore.

Ginger Webb:

You have yellow ones there? Is that what you have growing there is yellow ones?

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I love evening primrose flowers. I have all sorts of kinds. I get them at the native plant nursery, and I've gotten some from herbal apothecaries. I have not been really good about keeping up with what species that I have. I just find another evening primrose and tuck it in somewhere. But, my first interaction with evening primrose was... So, I didn't know this plant at all. I was at an herb conference in Oregon and somehow I found myself... It was at this person's place who had a large garden. So, somehow I found myself in the garden with a bunch of herbal elders, and they started singing. I didn't really... I was just there to be with the people and they started singing.

Then, as I began to become more aware of what was going on, we were encircled around this large patch of the tall evening primrose, which is the yellow ones. As they started singing, the flowers, they're pretty dramatic. They're all together and then they just pop open. So, it was just this very... That was a wonderful introduction to a plant that I truly had not ever before been aware of. Then the moths, those big hummingbird moths started coming in and…

Ginger Webb:

Oh, my gosh.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Yeah, it was a very beautiful experience. But, I'm more North than you are, so that probably has something to do with it, maybe of just the different opening at night or evening really.

Ginger Webb:

Yeah. But, even so, obviously in other parts of the country it has that evening energy and definitely the yin, more yin energy. So, if I move it out of the "feminine, masculine" binary, just move it over into, it's definitely more yinny. I think that can be called for so much with just helping people feel more at ease, feel calm in their bodies, and calm down and rest. In a lot of ways, that's a lesson that I learned during the COVID... We'll call them the COVID years. It's like, "Oh, well we don't have to run around in this kind of manic capitalist, production-oriented mindset. Let's take the time to rest. Let's take the time to do nothing. Let's take the time just to be." I feel like evening primrose really allows that.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I want to circle back to your Primrose Bliss Tea Blend. You mentioned it briefly. But, let's circle back because that really is a brilliant blend. I love the simplicity of it, but also the power behind it of the primrose, the rose, and the oat straw. It’s so nourishing for the nervous system. It's just beautiful.

Ginger Webb:

I was thinking about what do I usually mix with the evening primrose when I'm making myself a tea blend? I think that recipe was three parts evening primrose, two parts oat straw, and one part rose. I know that the evening primrose can be a little difficult to find. You probably have to harvest it yourself to find it. So, I wanted to make the two other... The other herbs in the formula, I wanted them to be easily accessible. But, a lot of times I'll also throw in some rose hips because of course, yum. And, it just becomes even more nourishing on another level. But, the evening primrose and the oat straw just are actually so similar in some ways. With the evening primrose just being a little bit more flowery and the oat straw being a little bit more mineral-y. But, they still have the same kind of deeply nourishing, calming effect on the nervous system that I like so much about them.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I like that you suggest steeping it for 20, 30 minutes or even longer.

Ginger Webb:

Absolutely.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

You will have a nice cup of tea there.

Ginger Webb:

When you harvest your own tea herbs, I feel like, "Let's get the most out of them." They're so precious when I have to, when I "have to" harvest them myself. It's just like, I try to make sure that I have enough for everybody all year. It could be a lot to try to make sure I harvest enough. Fortunately, like I said, it's growing in my garden now, and I don't have to wait for them to be growing out in the meadow. I’ve just got them all in the garden. So, yeah, I like to drink that tea, especially in the evening. I just find it really calming and relaxing and nourishing. So, it's not even just… so many nervines have a bitterness to them. And, that's not my favorite taste, shall we say. I like the sweet things. So, that's probably another reason that I like the evening primrose, is it doesn't... You taste it, and it's not offensive.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

It's very inviting.

Ginger Webb:

Yes, inviting, that's a good word.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Thank you for sharing that recipe with us. And, Tatiana, our botanical illustrator, has created a beautiful illustration to go along with this recipe card. And, Jenny has made it into the lovely handout for you, so lots of hands in this together to make this beautiful handout for you. It's just a wonderful brew of a tea as well.

Ginger Webb:

On the card, I think it's the beautiful pink evening primrose that I have access to that grows here, but you can use any evening primrose for that. So, any of the yellow ones should be just fine. I will say also botanically speaking, there's another genus of plants called Gaura, G-A-U-R-A. That genus is also... A lot of those have been reclassified botanically as Oenothera, as evening primrose. I was tasting one of them in the garden today to see what I felt... The flowers are very, very, very different, but they're super beautiful. They just look very different from the evening primroses, which have four... All the evening primroses have four petals. Then, they have a stigma, which is the female part in the center of the flower that sticks out above the petals, and it's got four parts. It's like a little cross.

So, that's actually a pretty good way to identify, to help you recognize the evening primroses. Especially if they're yellow, by the way, because some people... In Texas, I've heard that people refer to them as buttercup. I'm always like, "Well, buttercup is actually in the butter… is a Ranunculus, and they're not edible. They're more on the toxic end of the spectrum." So, I try to clarify, "Those are buttercups, and these are evening primroses, but you can always tell because it's got that female part sticking out of the top." But, the Gaura have a different botanical structure, and they are also just as nourishing and relaxing and really work just as well. I'm sure they all have their differences, but I would use them interchangeably for sure.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Oh, interesting. I'm not familiar with that.

Ginger Webb:

Yeah, they're really, really pretty. One thing I haven't mentioned yet, which is… I think is one of the places that evening primrose really shines, because there's a lot of nervines and we love them all, but one place that evening primrose really shines is in its effect on the digestive system. I think I first heard about this from David Winston, and I'll give a shout out to Kiva Rose, who's written about evening primrose quite a bit. But, it has an effect at transforming depression that's associated with your digestion. I think of it as when I've eaten a lot of heavy foods and my mood does tend to be affected by what I eat, for sure, and so if I'm eating a lot of... By heavy foods, for me that would be things like wheat and dairy and cold/sweet and things like that. I can definitely slip into more of a depressed mood.

I've witnessed this in lots of other people, as well, some of my clients or students or family members. For me, the evening primrose kind of shifts that really quickly. Just to have a little bit of tincture or tea or elixir will actually really, really help me shift out of that depression caused by the digestion. I'm not exactly sure what it's doing in the digestive tract, but it does seem to help transform it.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Makes it another reason to turn towards this tea for the evening, perhaps after a large meal or something.

Ginger Webb:

Yeah and I do think that in our herbal repertoires, it's such a great addition to add in for working with people with depression. Because you can work with diet and herbs, but then this one kind of brings them all together and kind of makes that bridge between the two right there.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Yeah and I just keep feeling like I'm swooning over it because the beauty itself is somewhat uplifting. It's just so beautiful. Is there anything else that you'd like to share about evening primrose, Ginger?

Ginger Webb:

I think about the other... I do teach about herbs in relation to the chakra system as a way of thinking about what organ systems plants have, but then how they're also associated. They can be associated with different chakras. I think about it for the sacral chakra, for reproductive health, for working with menstrual cramps and things like that, for sure. But also, nourishing, again, the yin of that system. I think about it at the solar plexus, which of course is digestion, but then somehow it always ends up having an affinity with the heart and with the heart chakra. So, it's not so much that I think it affects the cardiovascular system so much.

Even just the way we're talking about this plant, where we're just kind of swooning and being all kind of giggly and happy about it, that's such a heart-opening kind of a thing. Maybe that has to do with the softness of it. Maybe some of the reason I mix it with rose so often is because it has that affinity. Where the rose is a little bit more astringent and the evening primrose is a little more moistening, and they just pair really well together. But, that's the way I think about it when I think about herbs is I think about the organ system affinities as well as the chakra system affinities. So, I would say heart, solar plexus, and sacral chakra would be where I would place this herb.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

You know what this makes me think of, Ginger, is just the difference between memorizing facts about an herb and then the difference of when an herb becomes your plant ally, and you work with it for so many years. Because, that's coming through is just, like, you have this deep experience and relationship with evening primrose that was not built overnight, but comes through years of working with the plant, spending time with the plant. As you said, making all these different potions with the plant. It's really forming that deep relationship. That's such a special thing. In all of my classes, we all choose plant allies for the class. I tell people, this is something you keep doing for the rest of your life because then maybe evening primrose will be a plant ally for me in the future, maybe it won't. But, the fact that you have that relationship and then you're here sharing that with us is just a beautiful thing to help really understand this plant beyond facts that you could read in the back of a book or something. It's a beautiful sharing.

Ginger Webb:

Thank you. She's a beautiful plant. They are a beautiful plant.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Next Ginger, I would love to hear more about how you walk the plant path. I'd love to hear about your school. I'd love to hear about Texas Medicinals and just all the ways that you are immersed in plants in your life.

Ginger Webb:

Texas Medicinals is my medicine making company, which just grew naturally out of the fact that I was tincturing plants all the time, and you have to figure out something to do with them. So, next thing you know, 20 years later, I'm still making plant medicines and sharing them with my greater community. I have to because it's like I don't have enough clients to share all this plant medicine with. It has to go out to more and more people. I've been doing that over 20 years when I realized how long I've had the Texas Medicinals part of my business. 

Sacred Journey School of Herbalism came about when my child was about 11. So, they didn't need me quite as much, and I was able to dive a little bit more into teaching. That program has grown from a 75-hour program to a 200-hour program. That's the Level One part. Then, we have Level Two sections and stuff. Now, I have... Lauren Peterson is my assistant and one of the teachers in the school, and we've got apprentice teachers and all sorts of beautiful things happening with that. That keeps me on my toes and keeps me pretty busy.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

A whole proper herbal school.

Ginger Webb:

Yes, totally.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

What projects do you have going on right now?

Ginger Webb:

I would really love to write a book. I've been working on it and then it falls by the wayside quite a bit. But, I have the book in my head that I've been wanting to write for quite a while, which is basically the medicinal plants of Central Texas and all the plants that I love. That's in the works. Very slow, slow going, but hopefully sometime in the not too distant future, not too many years from now, you'll see a book by me about the medicinal plants of my region.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I have no doubt that's going to be an important bioregional offering.

Ginger Webb:

I hope so.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

One thing I noticed, Ginger, is that you teach September through May for your programs, which is just kind of funny to me because I have three feet of snow on the ground right now. So, those are really the Northern herbalist hours. But obviously, where you live is a little bit different. So, you have your class going right now and then you tend to enroll your classes in the fall.

Ginger Webb:

Right. We follow the regular school calendar that kids go to school September to May or whatever, and that's kind of what we follow. September, we don't have any outdoor classes. It's too hot. We reluctantly go look at plants in October. I would say October and March, April, May are our biggest plant months, really, around here. October, we're just full on in with the fall wildflowers. The primary program that I teach, it's a 200-hour program and it's 75 hours of online teaching of classes where we're tasting the herbs and talking about them and learning about them from the lecture that I'm providing and things like that. Then, 125 hours outdoors where we're really learning the outdoor plants. We do structure it around the year here in Texas or that school year, September to May. I do, I stopped teaching mid-May because it's too hot, nobody wants to go... I don't want to go teach outside. I mean I'll go outside. It's a prime plant time also, but it's hard to drag 30 people around out in the heat.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Oh, because it's not just the heat too, it's the humidity, right? I used to spend my summers in Texas. Growing up, I spent all my summers in Texas, and I'm so grateful I did because I was spending time with my family, my grandfather, my sister and stuff. But, I did not love that. It was kind of intense.

Ginger Webb:

No. Yeah, it's a bit intense. I don't teach during the summer here because I have no interest in going outside and teaching. That's primarily what I like doing is I like teaching hands on, hands on plant medicine, hands on identifying plants, learning how to identify them, learning how to harvest them, learning how to make medicine with them, and really falling in love with the plants around us. That's so much what the focus of the school is, is really just falling in love with the plants.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I love that so much.

Ginger Webb:

I also teach a Level Two clinical program that I've been doing for a few years and it's based on Michael Moore's constitutional physiology. He gave us these ways of thinking about the human body and how to basically, "Hey, if somebody has these kinds of symptoms, and you want to create a tonic formula for somebody, here's the cheat sheet." It's a very user-friendly system once you kind of learn it in terms of being a new herbalist and being able to figure out how to help somebody a little bit.

Then, I've adopted different practices along the way as I've been… as a clinical herbalist. I do a lot of drop dose testing with people, and it's just so magical when you give somebody a drop of a tincture and they're completely transformed, or they have an emotional reaction to it, and they start crying or something beautiful happens. Something beautiful is transformed. I'm very hopeful and very excited about the clinical program. I think it's very empowering to the students, and I like it more and more every time I do it.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Wonderful. Well my last question for you, Ginger, is a question that seems perfect for you because you're so plant-centered and… everyone's been getting in season six, which is that the herbs give us so much. So, how do you like to practice reciprocity with the plants? How do you like to give back to them?

Ginger Webb:

Reciprocity, that's such a beautiful word. Of course, I remember that word from reading Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer. She talks so much about that. So, I talk about reciprocity with my students, as well. I think that part of what I experience at the end of every school year in May when my students do their presentations and I see their emotional reactions to the plant journey that they've been on and the green world they've been exposed to and how they've… fall in love with the plants, it reminds me that this is... Every year I go, "Well, I guess I'm going to keep teaching because it seems to be having an impact." So, I think that my impact, the way I give back to the plants is by introducing people to them and helping people fall in love with them because it's this relationship that plants can have with us that I think is good for everybody.

I don't want to anthropomorphize the plants too much, but I do feel like they want us just as much as we want them. The way that I try to give back to the plants is by teaching about them and teaching their... They might have their own names, but I teach their common names. I teach their botanical names. I teach their families and their relatives and how they fit into the ecosystem. I teach about how they can help us as medicines. I think mostly just helping people fall in love with them, which is pretty easy to do if you create that safety within a classroom for people to be able to go, "Oh my gosh, look at that flower!" It just happens naturally. That's probably the main way that I'm giving back to the plants.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

That's so beautiful, Ginger, and I love what you're doing so much. I love that focus on the plants, on the ecosystem, and on the introduction of people and plants – and this world would be such a better place if we had someone teaching this bioregional, heart-centered, plant-centered way around every corner. I'm so glad that you're there and providing this incredible opportunity for people in Central Texas.

Ginger Webb:

Thank you.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Thank you so much for being on the show, for taking time for this, and for sharing your love of evening primrose.

Ginger Webb:

Thank you, Rosalee. Thanks for having me.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Thanks for watching. Don't forget to click the link above this transcript to get free access to Ginger's recipe for Primrose Bliss Tea Blend. You can also find Ginger at gingerwebb.com. If you enjoyed this interview, then before you go, be sure to subscribe to my newsletter below, so you'll be the first to get my new videos, including interviews like this. I'd also love to hear your comments about this interview and this lovely swoon-worthy plant. I deeply believe that this world needs more herbalists and plant-centered folks. I'm so glad you are here as part of this herbal community. Have a beautiful day.