Self-Heal (Prunella vulgaris)
with Caroline Gagnon

---

---

Weeds are some of our most powerful and most loved medicines and self-heal (Prunella vulgaris) is a fantastic example of this. So I was really happy when my guest, Caroline Gagnon, chose the beautiful and unassuming self-heal as the focus herb for this episode. 

Do you already love self-heal? After listening in, I have no doubt you’ll catch Caroline’s enthusiasm for this lovely herb! As you’ll see, she includes self-heal in herbal formulations for all sorts of health concerns, everything from chronic ear infections to menopausal night sweats.

I was seriously blown away with all she had to share about this amazing plant! 

Caroline even explains how self-heal can even play a part in helping the brain to recover from concussion. In fact, there’s a free, downloadable and printable recipe card for Caroline’s Brain Support Tincture Blend available just for you. You can find it in the section below.

That’s a lot of healing power from one little plant!

By the end of this episode, you’ll know:

► Caroline’s favorite blend of herbs to address an upper respiratory infection

► How self-heal supported Caroline on her own healing journey

► How self-heal supports the lymphatic system… and why that matters

► What parts of the plant Caroline harvests to make self-heal tincture

► The unexpected healing gift herbalists offer to the people they work with

► and so much more…

For those of you who don’t already know her, Caroline Gagnon is a clinical Herbalist practicing for 30 years. She is Co-founder and Director of FloraMedicina, which offers a variety of classes and a 5-year in-depth online herbal training program created to inspire and deeply educate French-speaking students from around the world.

Caroline weaves plant energy, science, TCM, Ayurveda, somatic experiences, and energetics into her work. Caroline offers private sessions accompanying people in their Healing Journey that explores the soul’s needs linked to our body; of addressing psychic, emotional and physical ailments and transgenerational issues in a joyful and magical way.

I’ve been looking forward to having Caroline on the show for a very long time and I’m excited to share our conversation with you today!

-- TIMESTAMPS -- for Self-Heal (Prunella vulgaris)

• 01:09 - Introduction to Caroline Gagnon
• 02:53 - Caroline’s path to herbalism
• 08:45 - Helping people with serious diseases as a young herbalist
• 11:44 - Why Caroline loves self heal (Prunella vulgaris)
• 22:50 - Self heal for brain trauma
• 24:02 - Self heal on the market
• 26:24 - Growing self heal
• 27:24 - Self heal tincture
• 32:23 - Self heal infused oil
• 33:30 - Closing thoughts about self heal
• 36:12 - Brain Support Tincture Blend
• 40:26 - Respecting and supporting the body’s ability to heal
• 42:44 - Learning opportunities with Caroline
• 48:11 - Words of wisdom for budding herbalists
• 55:07 - Herbal tidbit

Get Your Free Recipe!

This tincture blend supports healing as part of a concussion recovery protocol.

Ingredients:

Tinctures made with 1:4 ratio

• 2 oz. Gotu kola
• 2 oz. Bacopa
• 2 oz. Self-heal
• 1 oz. Ashwagandha

Directions:

1. Mix tinctures.
2. Take 1 teaspoon of the tincture mix twice a day.

Connect with Caroline

• Website | floramedicina.com
• Instagram | @ecole.floramedicina
• Facebook | @floramedicinaecole

Transcript of the 'Self-Heal (Prunella vulgaris) with Caroline Gagnon' Video

Rosalee de la Forêt:
Hello and welcome to the Herbs with Rosalee Podcast, a show exploring how herbs heal as
medicine, as food and through nature connection. I’m your host, Rosalee de la Forêt. I created
this Channel to share trusted herbal wisdom so that you can get the best results when
relying on herbs for your health. I love offering up practical knowledge to help you dive deeper
into the world of medicinal plants and seasonal living.

Each episode of the Herbs with Rosalee Podcast is shared on YouTube, as well as your favorite
podcast app. Also, to get my best herbal tips as well as fun bonuses, be sure to sign up for my weekly herbal newsletter below.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Okay, grab your cup of tea and let’s dive in.

I’ve been looking forward to having Caro on the show for a very long time. I met Caro about five years ago at the International Herb Symposium. A friend of mine told me that I absolutely have to meet her, so she introduced us and we sat down for a conversation. Caro immediately dived in deep. This was no small talk whatsoever and that conversation has made a lasting impression on me, so I’m excited to share Caro with you all, to share her healing wisdom. We touched on many important subjects in this episode.

For those of you who don’t know her already, Caroline Gagnon is a clinical herbalist practicing for 30 years. She’s co-founder and Director of Flora Medicina, which offers a variety of classes and a five-year in-depth online herbal training program created to inspire and deeply educate French speaking students from around the world. Caroline weaves plant energy, science, TCM, Ayurveda, somatic experiences and energetics into her work. 

Caroline offers private sessions accompanying people in their healing journey that explores the soul’s needs linked to our body of addressing psychic, emotional and physical ailments and transgenerational issues in a joyful and magical way.

I am so excited to have you here, Caro. Welcome.

Caroline Gagnon:

Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. I’m excited to have this moment with you and chat.

Rosalee de la Forêt:
Me too. Also, I really wanted to say “bienvenue” and I forgot, so I’m just going to say it now, bienvenue. I have been wanting to have you on the podcast for so long, so this is a dream to sit down with you. Let’s dive right into hearing about your journey as an herbalist and as a healer.

Caroline Gagnon:

When I started I was very young. I was 19. I just came back from India. I didn’t know what to do. I was not going to go to university. I loved so many things and I was so curious. I lived in my tent and I moved to Victoria, BC. I had help to build a path through the virgin rainforest, and then somebody talked about a class and I went to that class with Carol McGrath. She lived by a little park. I had this class and then I remember when I stopped out of that class, it was like I stepped into my path. I literally saw myself doing this until I was 90 something, like for my life. From that point on, I dreamt about herbs every night and I would open the books. I would have the picture and the knowledge of the plant, but I didn’t know the name, and then I would try to figure out what that plant was and the name was. It was what I dreamt about. It was like this download of information. It’s like remembering the herbs.

I did an apprenticeship, and then I’m back to Montreal. I studied Chinese medicine. I just studied, studied, studied anatomy, physiology, microbiology, biochemistry and start practicing really early on, too. The people that I would have as clients had those really complicated issues that none of the herbal books would talk about, like Addison’s disease, [spoken in French] disease. AIDS was big at the time in the early ‘90s. There was no protocol. There was no recipe for AIDS. I had a lot of people with genetic issues, which is interesting because I had to figure out how to address problems that weren’t from a protocol point of view, but to understand the plant, understand the physiology. Also, I would go deep into my physiology to understand how things function and how they related to one another, how the processes happen so that there was this self-regulating intelligence system. A lot of deep introspection, a deep listening of myself, of my clients, and so with every client I learned, I learned, I learned. I still feel like I’m a baby herbalist 30 something years later.

Since that first class, that’s been my life in so many ways in doing community work. In the ‘90s, I helped start this [spoken in French] withdrawal program for young people who are on heroin with herbs, working with street people and bringing them to learn about the plants that grew in the city. I did so many things. I had amazing big gardens, which I don’t have anymore. Two years ago, I saw something on Facebook and it became my mantra. It says, “You can do anything, but you cannot do everything.”

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I repeat that one on myself a lot too.

Caroline Gagnon:

I started to cut down on some of my herbal activities, bought two kayaks, and having time for myself. I started a school in 1999, which is online since 2012, Flora Medicina. It’s a French herbal online classes and a whole program, which is five years and a half to become a herbal clinician. We’re with the herbs in so many ways, in the sharing of them, working with kids, dreaming with them, journeying with them, tasting them, growing them and making all—I don’t love making things with them because I don’t like cooking that much, but I’ve tried everything. I feel like I’m more like a deer. I go into the forest and then I pick and I eat.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I love that. I also do that, cooking, which might surprise people because I do create a lot of recipes. I love recipe creation, so I create recipe and then I hand it off to my handsome French husband who then becomes the cooker of the thing.

Caroline Gagnon:

I love formulating. I’m pretty good at formulating. That would be something I’d love to formulate for – a company or something. I did that and I love creating that perfect mix and harmony. It’s like a dance and then you give it. You’re like, “Here you go.”

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Caro, I want to go to the ‘90s where we have you as this young person and you are working with very serious cases, working with very real situations, like you mentioned, autoimmune diseases, AIDS, people are dealing with not being housed. How is that as a 20-year old? I hear that this is a calling for you and it was a remembrance. Did you deal with impostor syndrome? Or did you just-

Caroline Gagnon:

Of course, and I still do in the sense. The herbs--they humble you. If you’re not there, then there’s something wrong. You are humble in the face of a healing journey, of the intelligence of them. I will talk about self-heal. I’m still learning about self-heal. I think I’m the apostle of self-heal. I’m obsessed with self-heal and every year I still learn something new about her. Also, when I started, there weren’t that many herbalists. Maybe two in Quebec that were clinical herbalists. It wasn’t really a practice. I always went into this thing as like I don’t know if I can help you. Maybe I can. Willing to learn and also, just being very curious. The thing that helped me to go and continue this even if my confidence was not there, was the fundamental belief that the herbs are amazing and that they will do something. Anything. They might not cure you, but they will help you in some way. It was that deep, unwavering faith in the herbs that kept me going despite my impostor syndrome, my doubts and my [makes grumbling sound]. And of course, I had all my defense mechanism. I would overstudy like most herbalists do, being in avoidance and calling back some clients. I’ve never looked for clients. I’ve always had more clients than I could take even when I was in my early twenties. It was more like, “Okay, let’s see,” and always being curious and excited to learn. That I think was my wind under my sail, holding me through that course.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Thank you. Self-heal is one of my most very favorite herbs.

Caroline Gagnon:

Yay!

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I feel like one that is often—I don’t want to say overappreciated, but maybe so far, generalized. It’s like the “heal all.” It becomes this general thing and then the specifics of it are lost within that, or more commonly is just not recognized for the amazing being that it is, so I’m excited to hear from you about this amazing plant.

Caroline Gagnon:

That was my view of it. It wasn’t used. When I looked at western herbalist books, it was like why we used to take self-heal for this and that. Really, a side note, this plant called me. The thing is I studied Chinese energetics and they used it in a very different way, which was not for wound healing. I rarely use self-heal for wound healing. It just really impressed me that two cultures would use the same herb for totally different things, so that told me that we don’t know a lot about herbs. We know a little aspect of them, but not the whole of them. I think none of us-

Rosalee de la Forêt:

We know one of their stories, but not all of their stories. 

Caroline Gagnon:

Exactly. I was looking it through when the internet came about because it wasn’t there when I started. It was very, very flimsy, but then I got to read some studies about self-heal. One of them was a study done on dogs, if I remember. They saw that it had a hypotensive effect. I was like, “Ah, interesting!” and so I started using self-heal for hypertension. It is my go-to. It’s the first herb I use and it’s in all my formulas for hypertension, depending on what type of hypertension and what’s the etiology. Is that how you say it? Then I would add other herbs and I have amazing results for that. And also testing it on myself. I got really sick a few years ago, maybe 10 years, almost 15 years ago from a formaldehyde poisoning. It was really hard to get out of my system. It really affected my dura, my nervous system. I had fibromyalgia symptoms and my thyroid crashed.

Like most healers, we have our healing journey. Sometimes I would get—when your liver is really not well and you have sand in your eyes. I would just drink self-heal and after five minutes, my eyes were clear. My head was clear, so really an amazing liver herb and that’s underutilized also for the liver. It’s like a hepatic. Also, because some of the clients that I’ve seen over the years and some of them who had taken anti-malarial drug and was really harsh, or other meds that really affected their liver permanently and they can’t take even dandelion, it’s too much for their liver, everybody—their body accepts self-heal. It’s a very gentle but profound hepatic. The other thing is—and you probably know that about me—I’m obsessed about the lymph. The lymphatic system and the…

Rosalee de la Forêt:

That’s one thing I do know about you, yes.

Caroline Gagnon:

When I’ve read about this self-heal and that it did have a lymphatic effect mostly affecting the upper respiratory tract, I started using it with kids that had adenoids—swollen adenoids—and were snoring or mouth breathing. Before they have them removed, I use self-heal. For most of them, they did not need to go through the surgery. Of course, there’s usually a food intolerance that’s underneath. Also, with chronic ear infection. I was working with—I don’t know the name in English—people who work with children who have speech issue. There was this little kid who had had 50 ear infections and antibiotics, and had speech problem because her ears were blocked since she was a little baby. I love working for the upper respiratory tract with self-heal, plantain and ground ivy. It usually clears everything. There’s that. It really lowers the histamine secretion in your bodies, for anything where there is too much histamine and allergies, seasonal allergies, I pair it with plantain. It is such an amazing anti-viral.

I have a lot of clients with fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue became one of my specialties after I got so sick. I kind of understood it from my body perception. I could see why your body will not self-regulate for 30 years. Everything is haywire. In chronic fatigue, there’s often an underlying chronic, viral infection. For those opportunistic viral infection, I use self-heal as a base and then I’ll add other herbs.

Studies came out with self-heal for herpes. When COVID hit, self-heal must be really amazing for that. There’s a great study from a university in Canada in Manitoba that came out that proved that not only did it help for SARS-CoV-2 to not penetrate the cell, but also self-heal regulates the immune system, regulates the cytokine response which can go haywire. Even if it’s not a great anti-influenza, anti-viral because it helps to modulate the immune system. I usually put that in my mix. There was a great study on self-heal on ebola. It’s even good for ebola, HIV and herpes, and so many other viruses. There’s also those opportunistic viruses, viral loads that come when you’re very fatigued, those that come with the chronic fatigue syndrome. Labyrinthitis when you’re all dizzy. Usually, there’s something with the liver and people can have that condition for months.

When I use self-heal with ravintsara and essential oil, usually we clear that with one or two weeks. It’s just amazing. With self-heal, it works with the lymph. I really felt that it helped clear my head with the formaldehyde because there’s something in your brain, it’s hard to clear it. I would feel it draining through the cerebral fluid, so I thought there’s something that self-heal helps to clear that. In 2010, there was this new discovery about the lymphatic system of the brain.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I remember that.

Caroline Gagnon:

That’s my link. My hypothesis, I think it does that. That self-heal really helps that lymphatic system of the brain. Also, because I saw that it helped the lymph and this whole ear, nose, throat area, I started to work with self-heal with people who had glaucoma. I think a few years later, they linked glaucoma with lymph issues too. So, there’s that and also, it’s a very great anti-inflammatory. More like as a baseline because it’s such a great antioxidant and anti-cancer, so amazing plant for prevention. I think we should all take self-heal everyday.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

It’s like all I can think about right now. I just want to go take self-heal. I often have that when I have guests. I’m like, “I need this herb right now. Right now, I need this herb.” 

Caroline Gagnon:

It’s such a happy herb. It shines and it’s so humble.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

That’s the thing that really gets to me about self-heal is how humble it is. Let’s think about it like an anti-viral like Ligusticum or oregano. They have these incredible, strong aromatics. You taste that herb and you know this is strong medicine. Self-heal is so unassuming and so humble and so powerful.

Caroline Gagnon:

That’s the beauty of our ancestors. Even in French, there’s an old name for—they say “brunelle” but it’s “tout bon,” like the “all good.” I think an old English name was the “heart of the earth.” Our ancestors saw. They understood self-heal and how profound it worked with us and when we journey with that plant and you meditate with it, it really goes where it needs to go and it shows you where you need to work. It’s very soft and profound.

I just want to talk about that other thing with the brain. We’re going to talk about that concussion formula. I started using self-heal to work on brain issue and brain trauma. I just saw as I was preparing for that, I’m like, “Is there something new to learn about self-heal?” There are new studies in 2023 and 2022 as a prevention for dementia and even help to recover memory because it helps in the hippocampus to prop up dopamine and other neurotransmitter. It really helps the brain to enhance memory and to protect the memory and to reduce the neuroinflammation, which I think causes, eventually, all those different types of degenerative, neurological things. Of course, turmeric is the big shot thing. The sad thing is it’s really hard to find them in the market, self-heal.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

That was one of my questions for you, actually. How do you find your self-heal?

Caroline Gagnon:

I think Gaia Herbs does self-heal. Some herbal lines hold self-heal. I just keep talking about self-heal and educating people about it, eventually, it comes from the market. You have to ask your herbal producer to harvest it and to tincture it. It’s great in tincture, but it works amazingly well in infusion too.   

Rosalee de la Forêt:

That was another question I have. Let’s back up just a little bit. I do want to say that a couple of years ago now—so I’m not maybe current—but I know Mountain Rose Herbs was helping us farm start a self-heal production, so I’m hopeful, but it takes years. It’s an interesting look at the industry of what it takes. Mountain Rose Herbs is putting out money out there to support the startup of this to get it going. So, we’ll see. As far as I know, and I could be wrong on this, but I don’t think Mountain Rose Herbs is selling self-heal. Just this week they announced they were selling bee balm, which is the first time I’ve seen bee balm, the Monarda fistulosa, in a major place. How many years have we been talking about bee balm and saying why is this not in commerce? Because it is easy to grow and it’s sustainable and it’s a powerful one.

Caroline Gagnon:

And it’s native to North America.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Yes. We need not harvesting it, but to grow it, specifically, sustainably for a larger market. That was exciting to see that. I hope that self-heal. It was last year around this time, the garden is not growing, I was mad for self-heal. I really wanted it. I went on Etsy. I went everywhere looking for it and all I could get was on Etsy, there was—I would get these tiny packages for $6. It’s barely even one cup of tea, but that’s all I could find. It was in those tiny amounts.

Caroline Gagnon:

The great thing with self-heal and sustainable harvest—I really encourage people to use the herbs that grow, that are abundant. The places that self-heal that grows is on lawn. You just have to-

Rosalee de la Forêt:

We have to get it going. That’s one of my big projects I am definitely in. This year was my best year ever of self-heal, so I’m just really working on it. I really learned this year too just true of so many plants, but not all, but the more I pick, the more it kept flowering. Every couple of days while it was growing, I was out there harvesting more and more. It’s still a small harvest, but the most abundant yet so working on it.

Caroline Gagnon:

I have a field around my house and I go and I mow part of the field and that is the perfect place for self-heal. I cultivate self-heal by mowing parts of my field, teaching people where to just not mow the whole lawn and keep patches of self-heal and harvest it and tincture it.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Let’s talk about that too. Do you have a preference on tincturing it fresh or dried?

Caroline Gagnon:

Because I love the tea, so if I dried my self-heal, usually, I keep it for tea, but the way the Chinese use it is really the brown spike--when the spike is very tall and brown. When I tincture my self-heal, there are studies showing—one thing, the Chinese used it really for liver yang rising, when you get those headaches at the end of the day and your cheeks are red. The children go very hyper, give them self-heal and then they calm down. Even for false heat that you get through menopause, some of my clients take self-heal and they don’t have night sweats. It cools down their system. The Chinese use it for that, but then the studies show us stuff that self-heal can do that we’ve forgotten. I don’t even know if we ever used it for that. Sometimes it’s in the stem, in the leaves. I take the whole aerial part and I just think the purple of the flower, there is something so vibrant in it. I mix all that in my tincture. I take the leaves. I take some brown spikes. I take some flowers at its apex. You just want to be a bee and go in it. I want that vitality in my tincture too. I just mix all that. I have great results, so I’m sticking to that recipe.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

That’s really interesting. I’ve mostly done the flowering tips myself, so now I’m excited to add some more to that. I just happen to prepare teas most of the time. In Chinese medicine, they use self-heal in very large dosages. I’ve been a little suspicious about self-heal in a tincture, which is just my background. I first studied Chinese medicine in Ayurveda which tend to use much larger dosages, so it’s just my bias. I understand it’s not everybody’s experience, but it’s just my bias. I’m curious about the tea and how much you use.

Caroline Gagnon:

It always depends on the problem. If it’s something you’re going to use for a few years, you can’t take that amount every day.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Because in Chinese medicine, I’ve seen up to 4 ounces a day of the herb, not the water. So that’s an incredible amount of herb.

Caroline Gagnon:

A lot of the Lamiaceae that don’t have that much volatile oils to really—I forgot her name—the Appalachian, Phillips Light?

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Nancy Phillips?

Caroline Gagnon:

No, I forgot her name. She was taught to really boil them down, to make a very concentrated reduction. For cancer, that’s what I would use. When there’s head trauma, it’s one of the herbs that I use and I-

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Phyllis Light.

Caroline Gagnon:

Half a teaspoon twice a day of the tincture. It’s a herb you can take in high dosage. It’s not toxic at all. The thing is, even for your wallet or you’ve taken all your summer harvesting it and it goes out for a month and you still want it for the whole winter, when you get the effect then you know that’s how much you need to do it. For my liver and my eyes, when they have this grit, just a normal tea, the teaspoon of the herb did that. I don’t need to add more. I see it in my body. It works.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I love that, the practical guide to dosage. I didn’t mean to interrupt you, but that name that you said, I was like, “I know, I know, I know,” and it’s Phyllis Light.

Caroline Gagnon:

Phyllis Light, yes.  

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Can’t forget Phyllis Light.

Caroline Gagnon:

I don’t know if she [crosstalk] self heal, but she would do that slow decoction, not too high, until it reduces, of skullcap, until it turns almost orangey red. It’s such a powerful thing. I do that sometimes with my herbs.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Do you ever use self-heal as an oil? In an infused oil?

Caroline Gagnon:

I don’t. I have this—I’m cursed with oils. They all turn.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I feel like I want to be like, “Come over to my kitchen, Caro. Let’s do the oils together.”

Caroline Gagnon:

I know. I might do them. It’s just you have to go everyday in. Every summer, I’ll do my St. John’s wort. I’ve done them all, but I just get the herbs from friends who do them--the oils. I haven’t tried the self-heal in oil. It’s my next thing probably, but I haven’t tried it externally.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I love it, but I can’t say that I have the clinical experience, at this point, to say that it does this or that, but I love my oils. I use it as a nourishing oil.

Caroline Gagnon:

I would use it also probably as a lymph massage.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

That’s what I use it as. Self-heal. Thank you so much for sharing so much about it. Do you have any other self-heal insights to share with us?

Caroline Gagnon:

I don’t use it for diabetes or for regulation of glucose, but it has an effect for that. I don’t think it’s the best, but it does that. There’s this great study. Maybe that’s why I was so interested. I had hyperthyroidism when I was in my early twenties, and then I had hypothyroidism. I was never medicated for it, so I worked with herbs journeying and meditation and invoking whatever. It’s really such a journey, but there’s a study on self-heal and Hashimoto thyroid disease. It’s really interesting what it does. They saw the mechanism of where it works literally on the antigen, your autoimmune antigen, and reduces it. That’s another great thing. Because it’s hard to balance right away before there’s too much damage to the thyroid, so that’s a great herb to add to your mix.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Lovely. We’ve talked about all of these different gifts of self-heal and different ways to work with self-heal in terms of the tincture vs. tea. Do you have any preferences of when you would use the tincture vs. a tea? Is that something you let your clients basically decide? Or are there times where you will just dramatically prefer one over the other? 

Caroline Gagnon:

Well, sadly, for my clients, I only use tincture because all the self-heal that I dry, I use it for myself. As you saw, it’s practically impossible to find really good dry self-heal if you haven’t dried it yourself. Just for that reason, I don’t often recommend it as a tea.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Alright, so it works great as a tincture. That is the takeaway.

Caroline Gagnon:

Even if you only have dried and you prefer tincture just for the convenience of it, you could tincture dried self-heal in it. It would be very, very good. Self-heal is different than the other Lamiaceae from the mint family that are very finicky to dry. Self-heal you could dry in the back of your car and will still be great and very efficient. It’s just amazing.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

It truly is. Speaking of tinctures, let’s talk about your tincture formula for a concussion protocol because this is very interesting.

Caroline Gagnon:

The thing with concussion, I’ve had a lot of clients in the past few years with head trauma and mild concussion and big concussion. Sometimes I had a client. She was a dancer. She had constant concussion. Every concussion that you have is exponential, the effect. Even if you had a little one when you were five, we could still see it in your brain if we imaged your brain. So, it’s undertreated. I’ve had clients who came to me two or three years after their concussion. We started working with the plants and they improved radically within a month. They could start multitasking, which they couldn’t before. When you talk and you write or somebody talks to you and you’re writing, you can’t do that after a concussion. The thing is, a concussion kick starts an immune response in your brain from the glial cells, cellules gliales. How do you say that in English?

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I think that’s right, glial cells.

Caroline Gagnon:

Glial cells, and it creates a neural inflammation. Your blood brain barriers becomes more permeable. Many things in our lives, there are still some that a lot of people have subacute neuroinflammation, which causes many problems, and eventually, neurodegeneration. It’s really important to heal the brain properly. It’s an invisible injury. When your arm is broken, you see it, but when your brain has been injured, you just feel off and you have nightmares. Your sleep patterns get distorted. Your cognitive functions are not on top. Your emotional states fluctuate. You can even have severe depression like we see with people who do sports and had concussions. So, it’s important to help your brain. If you have had a concussion and had not been treating it, treating it by just resting and not watching TV is not enough. There are no meds. I don’t know of any pharmaceutical drugs that help heal the brain.

That’s the great thing about the herbs. Self-heal is part of it. Usually, I would tell people to take equal part Bacopa, which is really good for neuroinflammation too and rebuilding brain tissue, literally. Gotu kola, which helps the brain, also helps to heal the blood brain barrier and self-heal to help calm down the immune response of the brain after the—I’ll leave two weeks and then start adding the formula. Of course, lion’s mane, which will help also regrow the tissue, and many other herbs like turmeric and other herbs-

Rosalee de la Forêt:

You mentioned ashwagandha.

Caroline Gagnon:

Ashwagandha, exactly. Self-heal does something that the other herbs don’t do and that’s probably because it helps the lymphatic system also.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Thank you so much, Caro, for sharing your love of self-heal and sharing so many of the gifts of self-heal with us. As we move on, I’d love to hear about what kind of herbal projects you have in your life right now.

Caroline Gagnon:

My practice as a therapist is really evolving. It’s really exciting. I feel like it’s blossoming because I’m opening other ways of working with herbs and people, really going more and more into a journey of all of who they are. The healing deepens. The healing journey really goes into roots that I’m always surprised how amazing we are as human and living beings, and how our bodies and soul really knows how to heal and what is needed, really holding that container for them and using herbs. Of course, there’s that 30 years of practicing herbalism so I know what works well and so that goes fast, but to really accompany people. Because I have an herbal school, there’s a lot of time spent in teaching and just having employees. This past year, I’ve been really setting up my time to make space for my clinical practice, which I couldn’t for the past five years. This really lights up my heart seeing clients who want to go into that deep journey and explore other avenues of their healing journey, which is everything. It could be transgenerational. It’s limitless.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Are you seeing people only in person? Or do you do long distance?

Caroline Gagnon:

No. I have clients in Europe, in the States, in Canada, in Hawaii.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Wonderful.

Caroline Gagnon:

Also, I will be teaching just in the outskirt of Boston. Some of that work—there’s not a title, but it’s like Somatic Intelligence Healing, working with the intelligence of the body as a herbalist, really working the herbs and journeying with them, getting into contact with the body of your clients so that it tells you what it needs and opening up to that life force that understands and knows more than our brains. We can have all the knowing and studied so many things in so many years, but truly, the person is the one who knows what is needed to heal, how to tap into that and help that person to access it so that they can self-regulate again and heal.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I love that, Caro, because it’s just so much more profound and magical, and ultimately, effective than being like, “Take turmeric for inflammation.” That is one type of herbalism, but you’re talking about this other thing which is an incredible healing journey and really respecting our innate intelligence and our innate ability to heal, which is more profound, again, than just saying, “Take this herb for that problem,” for example.

Caroline Gagnon:

It’s really not symptomatic healing. The journey becomes so joyous, magical and deep. It’s reconnecting to parts of yourself that are just wonderful because we’re all wonderful. Every cell of us is intelligent, divine and knows. Each time I accompany someone in that journey, I learn about stuff, about life, about the body. It’s just an infinite journey of beauty and fun. Even when we give space for the trauma, we never need to go back into the trauma. We need to go into that healing force that knows. It’s hard to put into words because it’s something you feel and you are, so you have to come and take a class.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Yes, there are people who want to take your class in Boston which will be in English or if they want to work with you on their own personal healing journey, I know you have your websites in French. What is the best way people who are English speakers can get in touch with you?

Caroline Gagnon:

They can email me. I think you’ll link the email.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

You might as well say your email here.

Caroline Gagnon:

It’s caro@floramedicina.com, for session. For the class, the weekend class in Somatic Intelligence and plant journeying will be very experiential on weekend. It’s on June 8th and 9th. To get more info about that, you have to reach the Boston School of Herbal Studies. I’m not sure about their website, but I think it’s bostonherbalstudies.com, but if you Google the Boston School of Herbal Studies, then you should find it.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I know people will be listening to this podcast or watching on YouTube for a very long time to come, so that is 2024 that this class is coming up.

Caroline Gagnon:

Yes, 2024. My other project, which maybe I should get some coaching from you because I have this YouTube Channel 12 or 15 years ago that I started, but really, my work has been shifting into a whole other area of herbalism and dimension of accompanying people and healing. It’s really what I want to talk about. This is all I want to do everyday. It just brings joy to my soul. It brings me into this magical place of the world. It’s just everything makes sense because you hook into this big, vast knowledge of everything that knows and is perfectly aligned. This is really what I want to do. I wanted to—maybe by the time you listen to this, there will be a channel about that.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

You’ll be continuing to work on your YouTube Channel for that, which we will link to. Wonderful. I’m so grateful that you exist in the world and that you’re sharing your gifts with us in such beautiful ways. Thank you.

Caroline Gagnon:

Thank you for being with me today.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Before we go, I’m not letting you off the hook that easily, I still have your one last question, which I’m leaving it up to you in your final thoughts.

Caroline Gagnon:

That’s the thing. The thing with herbalism and that’s why I started my school was we need herbalists. The world needs herbalists. The world needs that medicine and so many herbalists study until the cows come home and don’t practice, and don’t offer this medicine to other people because they feel they’re not enough, or they’re scared or they feel they have the obligation to cure. But you’re not the one that cures anything. The person cures themselves. Even the plants don’t cure anything. The plants inform the person, maybe nudge them in a direction. I always say when you put comfrey on a dead man’s wound, it won’t heal. What heals is that life force that’s beneath that. There is so much humility in herbalism and that’s good. That gives me confidence in a practitioner. If you’re humble, you’ll do good because you’ll listen. As herbalists, we’re really taught to listen to the earth, to listen to the plant, to be in relationship with the herb, to be in relationship with the earth, and to be in relationship with the person you are, to really listen. We are people who practice with our hearts. Maybe there’s not a lot of that as a role model in the healthcare world, but this is truly what heals.

My teacher, Carol McGrath, she said—how do you say [spoken in French]? Those people who arrange marriage? The matchmaker. A herbalist is really a matchmaker with the earth, the plant and the person they’re meeting and to practice, find a coach. I know you did that for a while, Rosalee, right? To step out and offer your medicine. Also, the plants are medicine that you’re offering, but you, as a human being, is the medicine also that you’re offering and to trust that, and to trust that you have an impact. People need care. As herbalists, we’re very caring. There’s a thousand ways to practice herbalism, so just go out and offer to the limit that you have. Offer the herbs. Offer yourself.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Thank you. That’s such beautiful words and wisdom. I said this off camera, but when I think of you, Caroline, I think of you as a healer. Just as you said, you heal in so many ways. You offer so much to people who you care for. Thank you so much for those powerful words. I feel like I could almost become a clinical herbalist again just listening to you. I’m sure there are people here listening who are feeling that too. They’re like, “That is my calling.”

Caroline Gagnon:

People say, “But there’s another clinical herbalist.” There’s not a lack of sick people in the world. Herbs help us to just not be sick. They help us to thrive. I don’t know how I would live without herbs. I don’t know how people live without herbs. They make me feel alive and good, like there’s something right in the world when I get up in the morning, when they’re with me. That’s what we give. It becomes this normal thing. It’s an ordinary thing. Just to acknowledge the extraordinary of all of them. People don’t have that in their lives, so when you give that, you change lives and you help them thrive. We all need to step out of surviving and start thriving. I think the herbs are really a big part of that. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Well said. I feel I’m going to leave this conversation feeling very inspired. Thank you so much. 

Caroline Gagnon:

Thank you, Rosalee.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

As always, thanks for being here. Don’t forget to download your beautifully illustrated recipe card above this transcript. Also, sign up for my weekly newsletter, which is the best way to stay in touch with me. The best way to check out Caroline’s offerings in French is @floramedicina.com. 

If you’d like more herbal episodes to come your way, then one of the best ways to support this podcast is by subscribing on YouTube or your favorite podcast app. I’d also love to hear your comments about this episode. What were your biggest takeaways? What are your thoughts on self-heal?

I deeply believe that this world needs more herbalists and plant-centered folks and I’m so glad that you’re here as part of this herbal community.

Also, a big round of thanks to the people all over the world who make this podcast happen week to week. Nicole Paull is the Project Manager who oversees the whole operation from guest outreach, to writing show notes, to actually uploading each episode and so many other things I don’t even know. She really holds this whole thing together.

Francesca is our fabulous video and audio editor. She not only makes listening more pleasant. She also adds beauty to the YouTube videos with plant images and video overlays. Tatiana Rusakova is the botanical illustrator who creates gorgeous plant and recipe illustrations for us. I love them. I know that you do too. Kristy edits the recipe cards and then Jenny creates them as well as the thumbnail images for YouTube. Michele is the tech wizard behind the scenes and Karin is our Student Services Coordinator and Customer Support. For those of you who like to read along, Jennifer is who creates the transcripts each week. Xavier, my handsome French husband, is the cameraman and website IT guy. It takes an herbal village to make it all happen including you.

Okay, you have lasted to the very end of the show, which means you get a gold star and this herbal tidbit:

As you know by now, I love self-heal and I also have a solo episode about self-heal that you can check out. Carol shared so many amazing gifts of self-heal. I’m excited to share yet another in this herbal tidbit.

Self-heal extracts have been shown to reduce excess estrogen and researchers hypothesize that it may have the potential to address estrogen-dependent cancers. There was a human clinical trial involving patients with breast cancer. Four hundred and twenty-four people were split into two groups. One group received conventional treatment alongside a self-heal extract and the other group received conventional treatment and a placebo. Those taking self-heal had fewer side effects from the drugs and fewer deaths over a period of three years. The researchers concluded that self-heal may be a potential adjuvant medicine for breast cancer treatment.

Do you have self-heal growing near you? If you do, I hope you enjoy harvesting and making medicine with this fabulous plant.